| LED Digest 1982: Dealing with Site Theft |
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================================================== The LED Digest Moderated Discussion List "Effective Online Advertising, Since 1997" pair Networks: The LED's Web Host Hosting and Domain Reg. from a Trusted Leader pair.com for Hosting | pairNIC.com for Domains ================================================== List Moderator: Published by: Adam Audette LED Digest post, led-digest.com http://www.led-digest.com .............................................. June 16, 2005 Issue #1982 .............................................. .....IN THIS DIGEST..... ======= NEW ==================== --== Site Design Theft ==-- ~ Andy Kale "I have an interesting case of a site I have designed being completely ripped off." --== MSN Search Hints ==-- ~ Sandy Galvin "Anyone care to speculate on what MSN is seeking to emphasize?" ==== CONTINUING ================= --== Ugly HTML ==-- ~ Tom Anson "The issue is good, efficient code, not pretty code." --== Dropped off Google ==-- ~ Shari Thurow "IMHO, just build a search-friendly Web site..." ~ Michael Martinez "Ultimately, it's what the searchers want that will determine what happens." ==== BILLBOARD =================== --== Learning HTML ==-- ~ Mark Roberts ======= NEW ===================================== From: Andy Kale Subject: Site Design Theft I know the topic of web site copy being "repurposed" on other sites has been covered before in LED, but I have an interesting case of a site I have designed being completely ripped off. This new site - www.xtremeteengp.com looks eerily similar to the Red Square Lounge site that I designed (www.redsquarelounge.ca). While in some views it may be flattering to have a design copied, what frustrates me is that the folks that have taken my design and code didn't even bother to change a link I had to the original site's home page (click on the red square on the Xtreme Teen Party logo to see what I mean). They've also lifted images I had created, as well as kept the alt tags exactly the same as what is on the original site. (The fact that they also took my PHP site and re-did it in Microsoft Front Page is also irritating, but that's another story.) My client has sent them emails and left them messages to take down their site, but he has not heard from them, nor seen any action to change the design. Has anyone in LED-land had this happen to them before, and if so, what did you do about it? Thanks, Andy Kale www.buzzmedia.ca -------- new post - new topic ------- From: Alexander Galvin Subject: MSN search We've noticed increasing differences between our placement on MSN (on one hand) and Google and Yahoo (on the other hand). Anyone care to speculate on what MSN is seeking to emphasize? And what characteristics might improve one without decrementing the others? Sandy Galvin Barclay Blocks http://www.barclaywoods.com ===== CONTINUING ================================= From: Tom Anson Subject: Ugly HTML > Has anyone found any browsers that can't > handle "not pretty to look at" HTML? - John Barendrecht, LED 1980 I think the issue of this discussion is not how html LOOKS in a text editor or is read by a browser / spiders, the issue is how CLEAN it is. The issue is good, efficient code, not pretty code. Or did I miss something? So many WYSIWYG html editors or template systems add a lot of extra garbage to the code, like endless font tags and other code affecting display -- things that should be handled in CSS. Some even add this code when there is a CSS file. And most over-use tables. All of this breaks up the content for page readers, and can be quite frustrating -- if it doesn't make the page totally inaccessible. As for how the html looks in a text file, I agree with Tom Aman. It really isn't an issue. I've even seen software out there that takes a pretty to look at file and mushes it all together so browsers can read the code, but not people. It's supposed to be a security thing. Still, I like pretty code . . . :-) Tom Anson http://www.ansondigitalconcerns.com/ -------- new post - new topic ------- From: Shari Thurow Subject: Google dropped Hi all- I have been following this Google thread with great interest. Here is my 2 cents on the topic. In LED #1981, Sarah Hayes asked: > ...what we have found is that traffic from Google is less > likely to convert to a sale. Does this mean that MSN, Yahoo > and AOL users / searchers are more serious than Google > users. Or could it be spider like software following links > and appearing as users? My first tip is to not over-generalize. Your site statistics are unique. No other business site is going to have the same numbers or conversion points that another site has. That being said, I think it is a poor conclusion to think that Yahoo or MSN users are less serious than Google users. Complete over-generalization. I design, develop, and market Web sites for a living. While there are some general formats I keep from site to site, I can tell you that I'd never create the same site architecture, color scheme, and text content for a commerce site that I'd create for a manufacturer/engineering site. Every industry is unique, and there are even nuances within the industry. It is up to the Web site owner to determine what users want and to deliver content to them in an effective way. Of course, you have to balance user goals and business goals. Users are not always right. And your Web site must be able to deliver an ROI or else you won't be able to maintain it. If Google traffic does not deliver the best ROI? Okay. You know that. Don't buy Google ads. Does Yahoo gives more qualified traffic? Are there ways that you can attain Yahoo visibility better? They have a directory, search engine paid inclusion, lots of advertising opportunities, etc. I can tell you that one of my clients clearly gets qualified leads by sponsoring the category they are listed under (in the Yahoo directory). His industry clearly uses Yahoo as a search resource. My client also doesn't buy Google ads, but he buys Overture (I still call it that) ads. Sure, his site gets plenty of Google traffic because his site is naturally search friendly, but his focus is on Yahoo. That's where he gets the most qualified leads. Also, you really don't know whether or not you are benefiting from the other search engine traffic. What if a person finds your site via Google, finds the content linkworthy, and adds a high-quality link pointing to your site? That's a benefit that you really can't measure. I do not share many of my search engine optimization (SEO) colleagues' opinions about optimizing for one search engine and not others. IMHO, just build a search-friendly Web site. Supplement with advertising, PR, etc. that is more focused. It's not bad that a site gets search engine traffic from many search engines. If it is bad due to server load, then just robots exclude the other engines. Sincerely, Shari Thurow http://www.grantasticdesigns.com/tips.html ------- new post - same topic ------- From: Michael Martinez Subject: Google dropped > Generally, the search engines finding [my site] are roughly > Google 68%, Yahoo 27%, the rest hardly anywhere... - John Arrowsmith, LED 1981 And > But the really interesting thing is that even on phrases that > rank equally well across all three major engines, Google > delivers referred traffic at the rate of 65% compared to MSN > at less than 1% and Yahoo at about 5% of all referred > search engine traffic. - Mike Banks Valentine, LED 1981 Depending on which site I look at, my own statistics show more referrals from either Google or Yahoo!, and MSN comes in a distant third. However, you cannot look at your own traffic patterns to see who is using the search engines. While there are no fully reliable sources of data, the third-party statistical reports released by companies like Nielsen and Jupiter are all we have to go on. The aggregate numbers show a shift back toward Yahoo!. People on this list don't need to become defensive or argumentative and point out that their numbers don't reflect those search patterns. 80% of all searches are non-commercial in nature. Most people on this list are seeking commercial searches. Don't be surprised at apparent disconnects between the aggregate numbers and what you see. Any real change in surfer patterns will be gradual over a period of months. Google HAS made significant changes. But because millions of people still use Google, for every site that has lost Google traffic, there are one or more sites which have gained it. In the eyes of those Webmasters who have gained Google traffic, there is nothing wrong and they don't want Google to "fix" anything. Ultimately, it's what the searchers want that will determine what happens. Michael Martinez http://www.michael-martinez.com/ ==== BILLBOARD =================================== From: Mark Roberts Subject: HTML > I have relied on my webmaster for years to post new information > on my website... I want to learn how to do this myself. - Claudia Lynn, LED 1980 My question to you (as it would be to one of my customers) is why? Are you looking for a career change? I don't know what your current line of work is, but would you be willing to forgo some revenue to do this? You might find this hard to believe, but I have actually known people who were willing to lose or forfeit $100 of revenue to keep from paying $50 to someone to update their website. Yes, it is true, it does happen. Of course, maybe you are considering working 8 hours per day, then putting in an additional 4 - 8 hours in the evening working on web sites. It makes a long day and some spouses frown upon it. However, if you are a young, single work-adict, you may enjoy that. The point is, if you are just doing this to try to save some money, trust me, you will end up losing much more that you will ever save in the long run. Let me also state that, yes, I do provide a way for some of my clients to make simple changes (via a form) to small details like catalog prices, descriptions, contact names, etc. But for HTML coding, no way. However, I have made a considerable amount of money from people who have tried to do this and then asked me to help them fix it. If you feel your current webmaster is not doing the job you need done, there are a lot of people available out there that can do an excellent job at a reasonable price. Mark Roberts Roberts Computing Systems http://www.robertscomputing.com ------------------------------------------------------- The LED Digest is sponsored by pair Networks: pair.com for Hosting | pairNIC.com for Domains Copyright 1995-2005 Orange Wheel, LLC. 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