| LED Digest 1983: Design Thieves |
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================================================== The LED Digest Moderated Discussion List "Effective Online Advertising, Since 1997" pair Networks: The LED's Web Host Hosting and Domain Reg. from a Trusted Leader pair.com for Hosting | pairNIC.com for Domains ================================================== List Moderator: Published by: Adam Audette LED Digest post, led-digest.com http://www.led-digest.com .............................................. June 17, 2005 Issue #1983 .............................................. .....IN THIS DIGEST..... ==== CONTINUING ================= --== Site Design Theft ==-- ~ Sheryl Coppenger "...I've been on the enforcement end of this before..." ~ Candice Bell "I kept this post (from issue 1909) since we were having the same problem." ~ Nancy Schettler "I had something similar happen to me earlier this year..." --== Cancelled Orders ==-- ~ John Smart "Digital media causes us lots of problems when it comes to theft." ==== BILLBOARD =================== --== Learning HTML ==-- ~ Michael Linehan ===== CONTINUING ================================= From: Sheryl Coppenger Subject: Design theft > ... I have an interesting case of a site I have designed > being completely ripped off. This new site - xtremeteengp.com > looks eerily similar to the Red Square Lounge site that I designed > (redsquarelounge.ca). - Andy Kale, LED 1982 I haven't had a site design stolen, but I've been on the enforcement end of this before (i.e., contacted because of theft of a design by someone my job was hosting). That site is hosted by digitronicweb.com. You can find that out by using www.geektools.com/whois.php. Digitronicweb.com has a decent AUP and should boot them from the site. They may do it immediately or they may ask you for documentation in case the xtremeteengp.com folks sue. Chances are the design thieves will move their site (still using your code) to another hosting company. Repeat as necessary. Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer. Sheryl Coppenger -------- new post - same topic ------- From: Candice Bell Subject: Design theft I kept this post (from issue 1909) since we were having the same problem. After numerous emails and calls to the site owner, this did the trick. I owe a big thank you to Mr. Frank! ------------------------ From: Mark Frank Subject: Copy theft > I have discovered that a competitor has stolen > the logo and words from my websites... Any > suggestions? - Beth Vance, LED 1906 Beth, I have been the victim of copyright violations on several occasions. A letter to the site owner is usually sufficient, but if they don't respond, you have to go to the next level. I have found that sending the following email to the offender's hosting service is very effective. All hosting services have policies against copyright violations, and I have yet to find a host who will risk legal action over someone else's website. Just make sure that you really own the copyright and that you can prove the material in question is really yours... ---- start email ---- Subject: Notice of Copyright Violation Sirs, (Hosting Service Name) is hosting a website that contains copyright violations. Now that you are aware of the issue, you are jointly responsible for the copyright violation and for any legal action the may follow. The website in question is [offending site]. This site contains information taken from [your site] without authorization. Specifically, the text and images information found on page [example] were taken from [your site]. WebsiteDesignBiz.com has been online since 2003. The material on the site is copyrighted and is not available for unauthorized reproduction. If you visit archive.org (http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://yourdomain.com) and page through their archives of [yourdomain.com] , you will find early versions of the material as it was written and developed. I can also provide additional data that will establish the authorship and date of creation of the material in question. According to the registration information, your offending site is registered as follows: (Insert registrant's name and contact information...) Domain servers: (Insert domain servers...) Please remove this copyrighted information from your server. ---- end email ---- I occassionally get a return email from the host asking for additional information or asking me to fill out an online form. Once I respond, the copyright violation (or the entire site) is normally gone within a day. Mark Frank, Author ------------------------ Candice Bell -------- new post - same topic ------- From: Nancy Schettler Subject: Design theft Andy, I had something similar happen to me earlier this year and it was thanks to a post on LED that I even found out about the copycat site! In my case, the copycat stole some of the look-and-feel of the site (page structure, navigational text & button placement). That I didn't care so much about. She also huge portions of my text: product descriptions, "frequently asked questions" (and the answers too), even my order form, only changing her address and the sales tax rate. Like your copycat, she left behind a tell-tale link which pointed directly back at a page on my site (the "smoking gun"). This is what I did: I read up on some basic information about copying, and intellectual property rights: (start here at http://copyscape.com/campaign.php ). First, I did the quick-and-easy thing, and sent the copycat an email informing her that though imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, that I was *not* amused, and requested her to build her own site, and not copy mine. No response, no results from this. Because the copier had not done a "private" domain registration, I was able to look up her listing at WHOIS, and found out who her webhost was. I printed off pages from my site, and the copied versions at hers, highlighting all the plagiarized parts (four copies in all). I composed a letter to her webhost, informing them of the infringement, and sent it along with the first (fat) set of pages & copies. I wrote a similar letter to my webhost, so that they would be informed about this - and to prove that my site came first, in case the thief got nasty and wanted to say that I copied from her - and included the second set of pages. The third set of pages went directly to the copycat, along with a letter, in the scariest and most formal "legalese" language I could muster, informing her of the basics of intellectual property law: that what she did is illegal, that there is an international law against it, and that her webhost has the authority to remove the offending portions of her site or disable access to them. And I cc'd the legal counsel at her webhost, my webhost, and attorney (just in case), though I didn't identify the lawyers by including their titles. All packets were sent with delivery confirmation, so that I would know that they were received. The fourth set of pages I kept for my own records. Well, the day after the copycat received her letter, her site was replaced by an "under construction" banner! And I received a response to my original email, saying that she had paid a company to make a what was supposed to be an original site for her, and that she had reported them to the "business bureau". Yeah, right! If you right clicked to view the source of her pages, her name was listed as the author! So I wrote back requesting that she provide me the name of that business she had used, because if they copied me once, they might be apt to do it again and I wanted to keep an eye on them. Naturally, there was no response to that. Well, at this point I was pretty happy. It was now February, and the copycat site had gone away. Success! But I kept checking every so often to see what, if anything, she rebuilt. Nothing, for about two months. And then... in April she did it again! She had changed some of the pages, but others still had my text, word-for-word. And the same page structure and navigation style. !!! Some folks are SLOW TO LEARN! Or extremely lazy, or both. So I printed off all the copied pages (again), and wrote another letter to her, this time threatening to pursue my rights to the fullest extent of the law. And this time I identified who all the cc's at the bottom of the letter were to. I guess she got the message - at least for now - because the site is gone again. But I will have to keep checking on this one, probably forever! In my case, it would have been relatively easy to pursue her, I guess, because we both live in the same state and that would have made it easier to take her to court. But it would have certainly cost a lot to do so! And other than having a bill from my lawyer to use for a tax writeoff, I'm not sure I would have gained anything other than a sense of satisfaction. Anyway, to any readers who don't want the text on their pages copied, I would highly recommend giving www.copyscape.com a try. Had it not been for a post from another LED reader, I would never have known about the copycat site. I don't think CopyScape can help with the theft of a site's design though, as it looks for copied text. Finding copied style is a lot subtler. Nancy Schettler A Well Dressed Kitchen www.awelldressedkitchen.com -------- new post - new topic ------- From: John Smart Subject: Cancelled orders > Recently, orders from my website have been getting > cancelled and refunds requested... I sell digital content > that is sent to the customer on CD-ROM. - George Oliver, LED 1974 Digital media causes us lots of problems when it comes to theft. Of course, some people do order in error (a friend of mine in England received an order for 20 very strange domain names a few years ago - he had to refund them all - the customers 6 yr old son had been playing on daddy's PC, and by clicking links got back to an order page his dad had used earlier in the day. My friend refunded the money, had to keep the domain names, and had his e-commerce area re-written). There are a few possible ways around this that I can think of: Restocking fees: Many companies charge you a 'restocking fee' for sending items back. This would help to limit theft - especially if you shout about it enough before the customer makes the purchase. If it is someone who wants to steal from you, then they will probably go and steal from a competitor who doesn't charge them a restocking fee. Software activation: Have the content encrypted on the CD. The customer clicks a link asking them to type in their invoice number. They are then given a screen saying that the activation will prove that they want the software (like the activation we are used to seeing on Microsoft, McAfee and other software vendors). This requires software development but if you are being hurt enough by this, it may be a viable solution. Electronic distribution: Instead of sending them CD's, send them links - maybe they could download a sample or cut down version before again passing through some form of activation to finalize their sale. John Smart, Technical Director InternetDesign.com - A Human Touch in a Digital World ==== BILLBOARD =================================== From: Michael Linehan Subject: HTML > I have relied on my webmaster for years to post new information > on my website... I want to learn how to do this myself. - Claudia Lynn, LED 1980 Hello Claudia, I think I've taken my reply larger than your original question. The discussion stimulated these ideas for me. I know I'm not precisely answering you -- you weren't talking about building a site, as such. I hope this gives a useful perspective. In two cases in the last year, I've seen particularly dramatic illustrations of how astoundingly ineffective it can be to engage in the seeming economy of 'do it yourself'. In both cases, clients wanted to write and build their sites, and to hire me for some software instruction, advice and "polishing" of their work. In both cases, the clients spent an ENORMOUSLY greater amount of time and money than if they had simply had me do the project for them. In each case, the client ended up paying me personally about as much as they would have anyway to do the whole thing! But they also spent a great deal of additional time and money on software, paying for corrections to their mistakes and paying with the enormous investment of their own very slow work. Both sites took about six months to build rather than the two weeks I would have needed. If we value the one already successful business owner's time at the same rate as mine, his real overall cost was something like TWENTY TIMES that of just hiring me. Don't we all have way too much too do already! (That seems to be the way of the modern world.) You already have a business to run. If you're operating a business anywhere above the absolute minimum level, it usually is cost effective to hire a specialist, be that an accountant, a lawyer -- or a web developer. In many ways, especially at the more economical level, Web design and Web marketing are still at a stage somewhat like the early days of desktop publishing. I once gave a talk where I asked how many had generated their own printed materials back then. About three quarters of the hands went up. I asked how many still did. Once hand remained up (out of over a hundred). Quality matters. The Web is mainstream. Many companies have web sites that present an image far below the quality of their company, and of their other marketing materials! Looking at a website is not like looking at an ad in a magazine. Your potential client or client is arriving with specific desires and expectations. A flat or negative experience at this point will have a much stronger and more lasting negative impact than a glance over a less-than-stellar ad. Your website should be at least of the same quality as your very best marketing materials -- if not even better! Michael Linehan www.marketing-alchemy.com ------------------------------------------------------- The LED Digest is sponsored by pair Networks: pair.com for Hosting | pairNIC.com for Domains © Copyright 1995-2005 Orange Wheel, LLC. All Rights Reserved. ----------------------------------------------------------------- "Teachers open the door, but you must enter by yourself." - Chinese Proverb |
