| LED Digest 2000: Marketing ROI, also Newsletter Growth |
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================================================== The LED Digest Moderated Discussion List "Effective Online Advertising, Since 1997" pair Networks: The LED's Web Host Hosting and Domain Reg. from a Trusted Leader pair.com for Hosting | pairNIC.com for Domains ================================================== List Moderator: Published by: Adam Audette LED Digest post, led-digest.com http://www.led-digest.com .............................................. July 26, 2005 Issue #2000 .............................................. .....IN THIS DIGEST..... ====== NEW ====================== <Moderator Comment> --== Building Newsletters ==-- ~ Richard Graham "...how about Newsletters? How to get subscribers and what's the best content to have?" --== Acceptable Marketing ROI? ==-- ~ Tracy Coyle "What is an acceptable ROI for marketing?" ==== CONTINUING ================= --== An Alternative to SEO ==-- ~ Ronni Rhodes "I fear we're in for an onslaught from people looking for another way to get a leg-up on the engines." ~ Tom Anson "Shuan, I thank you for this idea. I'll be chewing on it for awhile." --== Contracts and SEO / SEM ==-- ~ John Smart "SEO is not a science, it is an art." ~ Mark Whitman "SEO is just like any other service, buyer beware." ==== BILLBOARD =================== --== Webinar Software ==-- ~ Joseph Taylor --== A Little Humor ==-- ~ Beth Ann Earle ~ Shaun Johnston ======== NEW ===================================== <Moderator Comment> LEDer, Happy 2000th issue! That's quite a milestone in email publishing. Thank you for making this list so special. Best wishes, Adam ps - I knew I had some business to attend to... I've temporarily put a hold on the "Great Linking Debate" for this issue only -- it will return in tomorrow's issue. It was only because of a lack of space; Dirk Johnson has a lengthy response to the prior discussions and his post will appear in full on Wednesday. ------------------------- From: Richard Graham Subject: Newsletter Content For a new topic, how about Newsletters? How to get subscribers and what's the best content to have? I give away one valuable piece of content every month (a classroom game), and then feature updates to the site and my touring schedule. I've also started introducing other products and it's amazing how much people trust me now! So be careful that you only promote good things! And I've also put a newsletter sign up page on my order thank you page, as many people come to the site to buy, but haven't subscribed to the newsletter. This way they've already bought something so feel they are getting something extra for free with the newsletter. I also pass around a clip board for people to put their address on during my offline workshops. Anyone else have any cool advice? Keep up the good work Adam, but don't work too hard! Be genki, Richard Graham http://www.genkienglish.com ------- new post - new topic ------- From: Tracy Coyle Subject: Acceptable ROI? I have been part of online communities for over 15 years, the summer is always a slow time. From the time of BBSs, people, even us uber-geeks, spend more time outside than inside during the summer....my lawn takes 2.5 hours to cut....every 5 days... May I offer a "marketing" topic? We are a law office. We launched our website about 60 days after opening the doors. It has provided about 30% of our business over the last 5 years. Our average cost is about $22 a month. ROI is about 82 ($100 for each $1 spent) over almost 5 years. It has been as high as 145 and as low as 65. A very good return. Our second method of obtaining clients was media advertising - print and radio. One year ROI, .05. 5 cents for each dollar spent. We stopped that. We were told that Yellow Pages in our area was a must, ROI for 3 years, .82....we stopped that. Direct mail was started late in year one. Over the last 4 years, ROI is 112, our response rate is just under 10% and our conversion rate is 4.5%. We have sought a 4th source (3rd being referrals) for a long time and recently signed up with an internet lead generator. The cost is / was high but if we could just hit our average conversion rates for phone calls (67% set appointments, 70% become clients), the price would be reasonable. For our average fee, the ROI would be about 11, not great, but good for the volume. We cancelled after 3 months with the ROI of under 1 (potentially 3 if all that signed up eventually proceed). When we discussed our cancellation with the service, I told him our target was an ROI of 8, he said that was unrealistic, that 3 or 4 was more appropriate. What is an acceptable ROI for marketing? Are the ROIs we have for the website and direct marketing so out of line as to taint any reasonableness? About the only thing we have never done is handbills... Tracy Coyle http://www.cazelaw.com ===== CONTINUING ================================= From: Ronni Rhodes Subject: SEO alternatives > From hating Flash I've fallen in love with large-photo, > slow-motion, gradual dissolving slide shows... I think > there's no use of visitors' time that repays them with > so much useful information so enjoyably. - Shaun Johnston, LED 1998 How refreshing to hear from someone who's using Flash, a rich media component, in an appropriate and rewarding way for site visitors. (I loved the slideshow on Emerson Place. Well done and very enticing.) As bandwidth becomes ubiquitous, there is the looming danger of far too many "bells and whistles" being employed just because they can. And as search engines begin indexing audio and video, I fear we're in for an onslaught from people looking for another way to get a leg-up on the engines. Hopefully, more folks will follow Shaun's example and use rich media to complement their offerings and give site visitors an experience that's entertaining as well as useful. Best regards, Ronni Rhodes http://www.wbcimaging.com -------- new post - same topic -------- From: Tom Anson Subject: SEO alternatives > I ran out of logic to justify providing SEO service. Instead > I realized that it make more sense to work at raising the > rate of fulfillment... I need new ways to increase fulfillment. - Shaun Johnston, LED 1998 I'd like to thank Shaun Johnson for his ideas for an alternative to SEO. I'm not sure how much of that would work for my website (I'm not sure how much of it I understand!!), but I love the idea of a Flash presentation. (BTW, Shaun, your emersonplace site is beautiful.) I sell aromatherapy products, but I don't think the average person understands much about what makes a really good oil, or how the oils can be used. Adding some Flash presentations to my site might be a really excellent way to approach this. I have articles on my site, but I'm told by "experts" on SEO / copywriting that they're just too much. I know nothing about Flash, except that Macromedia has a Flash application. My other big question is how to acquire the photos needed to do this right -- at a price within my budget. Still, Shuan, I thank you for this idea. I'll be chewing on it for awhile. Tom Anson Anson Aromatic Essentials -------- new post - new topic -------- From: John Smart Subject: SEO pricing > Are there any high-minded essential SEO's who > offer a written contract to the client guaranteeing > a greater fixed return on investment, or is SEO > just another one of those "trust me" hyperboles? - Bill Davison, LED 1996 Bill's question is a good one, and sadly one that cannot be given a good answer. SEO is, in some ways like advertising. Coke and Pepsi advertise a huge amount. Some of their adverts do really well (I still remember an 80's Coke advert from England (and probably over here also) 'First time, first love, oh what feeling is this, electricity flows like...' that advert sold a LOT of coke.) Some of their adverts just do not work at all. They get dropped. Now all their adverts are designed by experts who know what they are doing. The ones that do really well probably do better than the writers ever imagined. The ones that fail probably leaving (sometimes the same writers) scratching their heads. If one agency loses the 'feel' for what sells, they lose the contract. Whilst they keep 'it' they keep a lot of happy contracts. Coke and Pepsi don't get refunds on adverts that fail. When they sign up with agencies, they do not get guarantees of ROI. They understand how the game is played. What is search engine optimization if it isn't advertising? We are advertising our sites to the most picky of customers - search engines. SEO is not a science, it is an art. Certainly there are scientific elements to it (as there are for many art forms) but it is still art. John Smart, Technical Director InternetDesign.com - A Human Touch in a Digital World -------- new post - same topic -------- From: Mark Whitman Subject: SEO pricing > Are there any high-minded essential SEO's who offer a written > contract to the client guaranteeing a greater fixed return on > investment, or is SEO just another one of those "trust me" > hyperboles? - Bill Davison, LED 1996 Why would any SEO, high-minded or otherwise, offer something like that? Does Google, or any SE, guarantee results to merchants running PPC campaigns? (No) Does the Yellow Pages offer any ROI guarantee? (No) Can you name one single provider of advertising related services, online or off, that is willing to *guarantee* a fixed, predetermined ROI? I can't think of any. SEO is just like any other service, buyer beware. There are some good providers and some bad, no surprise there. If you don't know the difference you need to do some homework on what constitutes good SEO so you are less likely to fall victim to providers with little more than "'trust me' hyperboles" to offer. Mark Whitman ==== BILLBOARD =================================== From: Joe Taylor Subject: Web Seminar / Webinar Software We are always on the lookout for the "next" thing to do for my customers and sponsors. For example, we have added a blog to one of my sites to create another way to build content up and gain more exposure. I have a question for the members of the LED list. Does anyone know of software you can purchase to put on your own web seminars. We have two industrial directory sites, powderandbulk.com and waterandwastewater.com and would like to be able to sell a turnkey web seminar to my sponsors and other companies in our directory. For example a company could put on a training class about their equipment or service for free to members of my web site, via the web. There are services that do web seminars, where you pay by the seat, by the min, etc. but software is hosted on the sevice providers server. I would like to be able to buy software and set my own server up to do seminars. We are currently running a Linux dedicated server with Perl / PHP / MySQL. Any ideas or feedback would be appreciated. Very Truly Yours, Joseph Taylor Powder and Bulk Dot Com http://www.powderandbulk.com/ ------- new post - new topic ------- From: Beth Ann Earle Subject: Humor > Now I will be the first to admit that I have a strange > sense of humour, so I would welcome any feedback > regarding the site. [http://www.spam-scam.co.uk] - John Quinlan, LED 1998 John -- you're a nut! But not the only person with a strange sense of humor. I got quite a chuckle perusing your site and shared it with my coworkers. Yours in all that is LEDly, Beth Earle Polysort LLC ------- new post - same topic ------- From: Shaun Johnston Subject: Humor John, I share your exasperation, and your site is a fine expression of it. But talk about singing to the choir! Spam has done one estimable thing -- it's raised suspicion of advertising in general. I enjoy how outraged advertisers are at how spammers bring the "legitimate" concept of advertising into disrepute. The only difference I see between spammers and advertisers is how much more money the advertisers bring to the sordid practice. Spam is just showing us what happens when you don't need money to broadcast advertising. The state of Florida some years ago planned to charge advertisers for the attention of its citizens. The idea got howled down, but I think it's worth resurrecting. Make RSS, ie "pull" media, free, but tax "push" or broadcast commercial messages. I enjoyed your site. Sorry, I didn't make a contribution. Shaun Johnston ------------------------------------------------------- The LED Digest is sponsored by pair Networks: pair.com for Hosting | pairNIC.com for Domains Copyright 1995-2005 Orange Wheel, LLC. All Rights Reserved. ----------------------------------------------------------------- "The secret of health for both mind and body is not to mourn for the past, worry about the future, or anticipate troubles but to live in the present moment wisely and earnestly." - Buddha |
