| LED Digest 2004: Not Just Linking |
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================================================== The LED Digest Moderated Discussion List "Effective Online Advertising, Since 1997" pair Networks: The LED's Web Host Hosting and Domain Reg. from a Trusted Leader pair.com for Hosting | pairNIC.com for Domains ================================================== List Moderator: Published by: Adam Audette LED Digest post, led-digest.com http://www.led-digest.com .............................................. August 2, 2005 Issue #2004 .............................................. .....IN THIS DIGEST..... ==== CONTINUING ================= --== Acceptable Marketing ROI? ==-- ~ Trent Wilcox "An acceptable ROI is a pretty individualized thing." ~ Viggie Bala "It seems a good review for the ROI for advertising in Yellow pages is needed." --== Not Just Linking ==-- ~ Eva Rosenberg "...please don't overlook pure good information as a means to getting to the top...rankings." ~ Don Baker "Acquiring customers via SEM should be the front end of an entire marketing strategy..." ==== BILLBOARD =================== --== Recommended Email Clients? ==-- ~ Richard Stubbings ===== CONTINUING ================================= From: Trent Wilcox Subject: ROI > What is an acceptable ROI for marketing? Are the ROIs > we have for the website and direct marketing so out of > line as to taint any reasonableness? - Tracy Coyle, LED 2000 Tracy: An acceptable ROI is a pretty individualized thing. For example, a small law office w/ a small budget could have a different ROI goal than a larger firm. Conservative business people may like a known but lower return than a speculative, potentially higher return from an untried marketing method. As well, a marketing campaign may have a goal of branding, rather than immediate and direct client generation, meaning later, indistinguishable and harder to measure returns. Although it would be great to pick out the one marketing tactic that provides the best ROI, concentrating all of your efforts on one method is risky, just like dumping all of your money into your best-performing stock. And, as you know, what works in one area of the law doesn't always work in another. For me, an ROI as low as four times is acceptable on a particular marketing expenditure. Of course, if my costs stay steady and I could guarantee a two times ROI, then I'd get a bank to jump in w/ $1B and retire the next year after making $2B. But costs rarely stay steady... My own experience, for example, has shown that the yellow pages work great in the Phoenix metropolitan area for divorce and family law, providing over the years, at least a five times ROI for me, and usually more. The ABA commissioned a study a number of years ago that showed an eight times ROI for yellow page lawyer advertising. (My yellow page rep keeps showing me the same old study so I wonder if there's something newer out there since the Internet has caught on.) Of course, the smaller yellow page books have largely tanked for me because their usage levels are usually low. (I'm currently trying a new book - we shall see on that one.) On the other hand, I have not had much luck in luring business clients via the yellow pages - these people use referrals because they understand the value of referrals. They (and their contacts) also tend to have longer standing relationships w/ attorneys. In one of your fields, bankruptcy, it's been explained to me that only really heavy advertisers do well in the yellow pages while the others, just like in personal injury law, get trampled or at least lost in the shuffle. You, as I do, are receiving a great many advertisers via the Internet. For now, the ROI on a very good web campaign, particularly on a busy private website, is remarkable. I expect that to change over time. Why? Bigger media companies will want in and they'll only want in to protect their profits, just like insurance companies raised their rates after 9/11. Even now, firms like Google are becoming megaliths, partnering w/ the big media companies, like my main current print yellow page company. Paid positions in the search engines will be dominated by the big players and we'll have to pay them to get on. Look at lawyers.com, for example. In fact, there are three marketing / advertising firms that dominate the legal spectrum already. Martindale-Hubbell, LexisNexis and Legalmatch. I'm sure I forgot one or two, but those three spend tremendous amounts of cash that small firms representing the average consumer cannot match. So, I say, enjoy the web now but keep doing at least some of the rest of what you found works to remain well-rounded and flexible. Your direct mail campaign seems to be offering astounding results. I doubt the Arizona Bar would approve of it, for a number of reasons, including that they seem to dislike lawyers (but that's another story). Our rule does not sound terribly restrictive but I think the interpretation may be. If you're doing the direct mail in divorce cases, I'm doubly curious. We have a number of so-called mediation firms (and I use the term "mediation" very, very loosely) that get contact info off the public records following a divorce filing, then send out a letter offering their services. It seems that a number of people have been beaten up upon their spouse seeing that letter. Our primary ethical rule that would control direct mail campaigns is found at: http://snipurl.com/gnne [azrules.westgroup.com] [editor note: this site imposes a forced registration form in order to proceed to the given link] As w/ all rules and laws, it's all in the interpretation and application, not the words. (That's why I think the public ((purportedly)) hates lawyers.) Yours very truly, Trent Wilcox www.wilcoxlegal.com trent, wilcoxlegal.com ------- new post - same topic ------- From: Viggie Bala Subject: ROI It seems a good review for the ROI for advertising in Yellow pages is needed. Recently we had to setup a facility in another metro where we don't know anybody for doing interiors, furnishings etc. We searched on the internet as well as the yellow pages. Found that yellow pages were more handy in such cases. The search engine results were filled with keyword optimized sites that was not useful to us, some sites just listed out adsense advertisements to click further. We called up some 15 businesses using yellow pages. And looking back, I realise, I never mentioned to them that we found them on Yellow pages. And they too didn't bothered to ask. Also, in two instances we couldn't reach the right person on phone and hung up when we are 'on hold' for what seemed a long time. We simply tried the next one. So their ROI from Yellow pages was affected by their reception. Hope this helps, Regards, Viggie Bala -------- new post - new topic -------- From: Eva Rosenberg Subject: Linking Dear Adam, What a great article (post?) by Michael Martinez! Like the kinds of outlines for good sites that we developed in the early days of the I-HelpDesk & WebReview http://www.helpdeskwebreview.com/ (whose older archives are still on the Audette servers) http://list.audettemedia.com/archives/i-helpdesk.html (Folks, do you really appreciate, or even understand, what a wonderful resource Adam and John Audette have provided to our Internet community - and how instrumental they've been in developing a sensible and orderly environment in which we could operate? I would never have known as much as I do now without their digests.) These days, I am getting SOOOOO many e-mails from people about linking that I usually just trash them or ignore them. And most of their links are on a page that isn't linked anywhere on their own site...just a general link farm or a more targeted link farm. Although...I did get one last week that was actually from a legitimate website with real value that we could trade - and even promote each other in our newsletters...and trade articles...and add real value for our audiences. But that was one out of about 100 solicitations. No disrespect intended to all the really hard-working SEO folks - many of whom sweat bullets working with clients who don't get it. And they do an excellent job convincing their clients to create pages that actually have meaning instead of a mass of data, or just lots of graphics. But, please don't overlook pure good information as a means to getting to the top of search engine rankings. I have been totally absorbed with running a business and have never taken the time to really do a proper job with optimization. I know that I cringe whenever I look at the keywords I find in my metatags. I know that if I took the time to direct my webmaster, or if I provided him with the significant terms (that as a non-tax professional, he wouldn't know to use), I'd do much better in rankings. On the other hand - Google "free tax information", one of those phrases people seem to search for often. Out of 40 million hits, TaxMama.com is on the first page - above the fold, even. That wasn't caused by conscious strategy - just by generally hard work - and legitimate links to the site from major newspapers, radio and television stations. Google "Eva Rosenberg" (I have never even thought of optimizing for that!) In 14,000 hits, the first 5 pages only include references to two other Eva Rosenbergs. And let me tell you, that name is more common than you might imagine. There are three of them here, within a 10 mile radius. The point? Remember to focus on creating a high quality site with good information and good value. Do that well and submit your sites to the search engines - you will get the visibility. And don't forget to supplement your websites with as much publicity and legitimate reviews, information and interviews as you can generate about yourself or your product/service. The more that people talk about you, the higher you'll rise in rankings simply do to your fame. That's the one think I do devote lots of time to - scouring the ProfNet queries from PRLeads.com every day and speaking to at least one journalist each day. After doing this for two years, these days, many of them are simply calling me when they need an expert source. I devote at least two hours a day to this - hmmm...no wonder I can't get any work done! Oh yes, and when Google's folks who oversee some of the spidering write to you and ask you to place code on the site to let it be spidered - respond promptly. But, that's another story. Best wishes, Eva Rosenberg TaxMama.com - A daily cure for your tax blues http://www.taxmama.com/taxquips -------- new post - same topic -------- From: Donald L. Baker Subject: Linking I liked this frank comment by Rich Dudley in LED 2003: > Being #1 in the SERPs isn't as important as selling a lot > of products. Being high up in the SERPs is helpful, no doubt, > but personal referrals are better. I did a small analysis of > our visitor and purchase stats last year, and while search > engines accounted for the majority of visitors, customers > who followed an unsolicited link from a forum / blog / etc > purchased with a much greater frequency. I remarked in a recent LED that we're spending a lot more time talking with our SEM clients about other aspects of online marketing. Rich points out referrals as an important source of business, and I'd add to that repeat business from satisfied customers. Acquiring customers via SEM should be the front end of an entire marketing strategy designed to get repeat business from each customer (the "lifetime customer value" mantra), as well as referrals (by word-of-mouth, gift cards, sale coupons, etc.). Many online merchants have found that the most recent customers are the best source of repeat sales, which explains the success of upsell offers in the checkout process, the product package or follow-up emails. Recent (satisfied) customers are probably the best source of referrals -- and testimonials -- as well. These and other follow-up methods help reduce the cost of acquiring a customer via SEM. Don Baker NSI Partners www.nsipartners.com ==== BILLBOARD =================================== From: Richard Stubbings Subject: E-mail clients I thought I would ask the experts their opinions and recommendations. I am looking to replace my e-mail client as it is no longer being supported (it seems) by its supplier (at least they have not said so, but no real upgrades or releases in years and its irritations are not going away) I am looking for a SAFE e-mail client that can live on a small network (3 Windows PCs) and share a common message file / database. It has to be easy to use, and safe. By safe I mean - it does NOT run attachments, it does NOT run any macros or java or indeed anything without explicit user agreement. It can show both the text message and HTML message. It does not drag down any remote images without user agreement (i.e. I dont want the 3rd party spammer recording that I have received his e-mail and looked at his image) It has to be able to automatically collect mails from a number of POP 3 boxes and put them in to folders based on who the mails are addressed to. The end user should not have to worry that there are multiple pop3 mail boxes. Any suggestions / recommendations????? Thanks Richard Stubbings Kulture Shock http://www.kultureshock.co.uk ------------------------------------------------------- The LED Digest is sponsored by pair Networks: pair.com for Hosting | pairNIC.com for Domains Copyright 1995-2005 Orange Wheel, LLC. All Rights Reserved. ----------------------------------------------------------------- "When you are content to be simply yourself and don't compare or compete, everybody will respect you." - Lao-Tzu |
