Marketing & SEO Discussion List - LED Digest

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From: Derek Andrews
Subject: Creative linking

> I have a client who got a link from a company with
> a high pagerank site that is very relevant. The problem
> is that the link is on a page that is accessed through
> a database query... is there a way to make this look
> like a static link to a search engine spider?
        - Dave Roberts, LED 2248

Most probably not. Having a "high pagerank site" is meaningless in
this context. What is important is the pagerank of the PAGE that the
link is on, and if that can only be found by Google from a link on
your site, I doubt that the page rank will be very high.

Derek Andrews, woodturner
http://www.seafoamwoodturning.com/


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From: Eric Ward
Subject: Creative linking

> The idea is that the search engine spider will find the
> link on our site and follow it -- causing the database
> query to be run, so the spider would see the page
> generated by the query, and find the link to my client's
> site. Giving us credit for a reciprocal link.
        - Dave Roberts, LED 2248

It's certainly possible but not a guarantee.  The URL with an
imbedded query string might break the bot (not as common as it used
to be). There are a few other things to keep in mind to doing it
this way as well.  If it does work, note that you also just created
a reciprocal link to the high PR site, which *could* devalue the
high pagerank IBL back to your site since now the engines cannot be
100% certain the link from the high PR site was earned.  One way is
best in this case *IF* you can make sure the engines know about the
IBL.

Options...

1). Run a search at GYM (Google / Yahoo / MSN) of the exact URL from
the high PR site and see if GYM has that URL in their indexes.  If
the answer is yes, you're golden.

2). If the answer is no, you can always submit (Add URL) to the bots
the exact URL from the high PR site that has your IBL on it.  This
used to be frowned upon but not really anymore.  Once links started
to matter, it became a free for all submission orgy.

Eric Ward


-------- new post - same topic --------

From: Michael Martinez
Subject: Creative linking

You should run some queries on search engines to see if they are
indexing the dynamic pages.  It would have been better had you done
this before the client got the link.  If there are no dynamic pages
from that linking source in the search indexes, you need to tell the
client to just move on.

You might also check the linking site's robots.txt file to see what
they allow search engines to do.

Michael Martinez - "Cuando Maria canta, ella canta para m"
http://www.michael-martinez.com/ and http://michael-martinez.blogspot.com/


-------- new post - new topic --------

From: John Smart
Subject: MSN Live

> MSN site visits fell right off the table a week ago
> with the launch of MSN's live.com... Not only are
> the referrers not showing as search engines but
> no referring data at all! Is this a beta glitch or a
> plan to keep analytical data proprietary?
        - Cheryl Berry, LED 2248

I would imagine that poses a legal question as well.

My site is, after all, mine. I own the content of that site.
Therefore, if MSN, Google, or anyone else are indexing it, they are
taking my data, and keeping it on their servers. It strikes me that
a reasonable 'royalty' fee for this would be to disclose the details
of any search set against my data.

Mind you, they could say if I don't want them to get my data, I
should set my robots.txt to exclude them.

Although, hypothetically, could I not use that argument to say 'Your
Honor, if they didn't want me to take their car, they should have
activated the car alarm'.

I am grateful that my work is simple, and such weights are not a
burden to me!

John Smart
InternetDesign.com - A Human Touch in a Digital World


-------- new post - new topic --------

From: Donald Baker
Subject: PPC engines

> I saw a 32% decline in sales when I had
> Overture completely turned off. During the
> month Google was turned off sales decreased
> by less than 2%... ditching Google six months
> ago has had literally no impact on my sales.
        - Gregory Marquess, LED 2247

Gregory's experience confirms the results of a 2004 study described
in ClickZ, regarding the CTRs for PPC ads placed on the major search
engines. http://www.clickz.com/showPage.html?page=3347951

There was a much higher CTR for Google & Yahoo organic SERPs than
accompanying PPC ads, but much higher CTR for PPC ads on MSN Search.
Since Google & Yahoo have the majority of SE traffic between them
(73% in July, according to ComScore), it makes sense that highly
ranked, organic SERPs on Google and Yahoo will enjoy better CTRs
than PPC ads.

Google AdWords is probably the best PPC platform through which to
fine-tune a PPC campaign's ad copy, but perhaps not the best
profit-maker for every merchant.

It would be an interesting experiment for Greg to see if starting a
new PPC campaign on Microsoft adCenter (whose ads appear on MSN
Search) would prove more profitable than his earlier Google and
Overture (YSM) campaigns. The Microsoft system also has the
advantage of generally lower bid prices than either Google AdWords
or YSM. (The downside for the advertiser is the clunky and
still-buggy user interface.) It would be interested to learn his
results.

Don Baker
NSI Partners


-------- new post - new topic --------

From: Anthony Kirlew
Subject: Getting traffic

> ... I've just recently started to branch off into
> SEO. If any of you could provide me with some
> helpful tools, or sites out there that would help
> give me a little more knowledge I'd really
> appreciate it.
        - Janelle Smith, LED 2248

Hi Janelle,

Here are a few sites & resources that will get you up to speed.

1. http://www.searchenginenews.com/ - This is Planet Ocean's website where
you can subscribe to their monthly newsletter, which many
professional SEO's consider one of the best.  With your membership,
you will get a copy of their "Unfair Advantage on Winning the
Search Engine Wars" ebook, and a monthly update based on their
ongoing research in the field of SEO / SEM.

2. http://www.seobook.com/ - This is site where you can order
another great SEO / SEM book, and also keep up with the industry
from Aaron's blog.

3. http://www.searchenginewatch.com/ - This site has a host of free SEO /
SEM resources, as well as a paid section which I recommend to get
more in-depth SEO insights.  It also has a forum and is connected
with http://www.searchenginestrategies.com/, which is the site that details
the SEO conferences that are held annual across the world.  I highly
recommend attending one of these as it will put you directly in
touch with many of the leaders in the industry

There are dozens of sites out there, but if you become intimate with
these three and their resources, you can master the field (and be
directed to additional solid resources).

Here is a freebie - I am getting ready to offer this ebook to my
clients and subscribers free of charge.  It is a great "77 ways to
obtain web traffic" summary written by Allan Gardyne of
AssociatePrograms.com, who has graciously allowed me to offer it to
co-brand it and offer it to my clients.
http://www.webtrafficteam.com/dl/77ways.pdf

Anthony Kirlew, Principal

Web Traffic Team
http://www.webtrafficteam.com/


-------- new post - new topic --------

From: Al Toman
Subject: Email publishing

"Dick and Jane sitting in a tree, R-S-S-I-N-G
First comes email, then comes SPAM
Then comes Jane, with her RSS-O-GRAM.
... And quit MSN'n around, Dick."

I learned XML scripting of RSS 2.0 feeds
(http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss) several months ago.  I can
script XML feeds sitting, standing, dancing on the ceiling, or even
sitting in a tree.  Yeah, so, now what!?!

Recently, thanks to this Adam guy (does anyone know who he is?) from
LED Digest, I slipped up into my tree and learned what all this
R-S-S-I-N-G is about.

The question posed:

> ... how will email publishing evolve in light of problems
> with email and more efficient emerging technologies?
        - Moderator Comment, LED 2245

... is well addressed in an article published on September 29, 2003
by Robin Good from Sharewood Tidings, which can be found at
http://www.llrx.com/features/rss.htm.

Though Sharon Housley is trying to sell you something, there are a
couple of good points made in her Feed for All article
http://www.feedforall.com/future-rss-not-blogs.htm.

There are plenty of others, but these get to the point.

All y'all being marketers, you may want to skim the reads.  There
are absolute, definitive advantages of R-S-S-I-N-G to both the
recipients and senders of email marketing.  However, R-S-S-I-N-G has
its down-sides, as well.

"First comes email, then comes SPAM"

Most everyone is looking for easy, right?  Heck, water takes the
least resistant path, electrons take the least resistant path, so,
why shouldn't we humanoids take the path of least resistance?
Because free and easy are FOUR LETTER WORDS that come with a BIG
price tag!

Firstly, most everyone and their mother does the email.  It's easy.
Open the email client, compose a message, pop in the email
address(es) of the intended reader(s), now, don't forget the
subject, and click the send email button.  Everyone can-do the
do-can email.  Right? Wrong.

Before Robin Hood pulls back the bow, RH looks for the soft spot of
his target.  It's much easier for the arrow to penetrate.  Armed
with this knowledge, RH realizes that he too has a soft spot and
makes provisions to harden (protect) it before going into battle.

Well, all these millions of emailers who think that they are
emailers, cause itz e-zee, have announced to SPAMMERS, here's my
soft spot, shoot me!

Well, okay.  That was easy.  Not much effort required to spam, is
it?  Consequently, 70-90% of ALL email is UCE.  Is it the spammers
fault?  Though they have a role (or is it roll?) in UCE, it's really
the emailers' fault!

As we emailers are complacent in paying our taxes (never following
up on how tax dollars are being used), we've settled into
complacency in today's emailing.  It's an annual billion dollar
proposition. It takes up bandwidth, makes computers work harder,
uses more energy, consumes more of our limited natural resources,
and don't forget the monthly fees that YOU ARE PAYING to guard,
somewhat, from spam.

FREE and EASY will COST you.  I don't think that I've ever sworn
this bad using 6 words!?!

All y'all dear friends just LOVE to send their entire email group
list some worthless, huggie and kissie your neighbor today, send
this prayer email to another 10 of your best friends, or watch out
for this latest email or credit card scam that's going around.

Why use BCC when you can advertise all the email addresses of
everyone in your email group list?  Perhaps you think everyone with
whom YOU associate are pearly-white winged angels, however, suppose
one of your associates has a list, and on that list is a
black-pearled, winged angel!?!

Do FREE and EASY emailers know from where spam comes?  I mean, other
than from above?

As marketing webmasters, we probably all know about the Email Me
html mail-to tag, right?  Another, hey spammer, I'm over here!
Well, it's still being used today because its EASY to buy a copy
(FREE if you pirate a copy) of Dream Weaver and throwup a web site,
1,2,3, including the Email Me!

Some smug marketer will without doubt proclaim, not me, you see,
because I obfuscate thee! Then, signup for Google's FREE and EASY
Google Maps Business Listing. Ah huh.  Take a double-look at the
email address there.  It's yours.  It's soft.  It's now MINE, sez
mee!

I cannot forget to mention the millions of signup for our newsletter
forms out there.  Even if some are sincere in reassuring you that
they do not sell or use your self-provided data,  I can potentially
SPAM your EMAIL ADDRESS, you see!

And don't forget the unsubscribe link of which its purpose isn't
really to unsubscribe or it will take 30 years to remove your email
address from our data base.  I script unsubscribe script and it
takes less than 3 nanoseconds to unsubscribe!

With 80,000,000 bloggers and 75,000 joining in every day, the BLOG
comment form is FREE and EASY. Yeah, for Uncle Spam. We're not even
counting the millions of contact (and other type of) forms found on
some of the other 20,000,000,000 web pages.

Today's hype is W2.0, community networking interactivity.  The
Un-hype is, is everytime someone is given permission to access
(your) web site, you potentially open the door to naughty things!

Professional web design is an entirely separate topic, however,
professional web design entails much, much, much more than purty
pictures, cool lookin' web pages, or Dream Weaving a Throw-Up (like
in brown-bagged vomit) Web Site~!

"Then comes Jane, with her RSS-O-GRAM"

Yeah.  You thought I'd forget about Jane, didn't you!?!

RSS is advantageous because the user can choose and select without
submitting any of their data (name; email address; etc) and the
above First comes email, then comes SPAM all becomes a mute point.

However, RSS for the user, today, is not EASY.  Well, RSS really is
easy with an effort.  So, let's say that RSS is not as EASY as email
and email wouldn't be all that EASY if one learned how to email.
Therefore, for RSS to accel, RSS has to give the user an appearance
of being EASY.

Scripting email, on the other hand, is not an EASY task.  There are
several different email clients, the procedure to script html
web-mail is a scab, the security issues are abundant, and more.

Scripting RSS is EASY with an effort.  Hopefully, by next month, I
should have an open source script available to LED Digesting
marketers who are interested in creating RSS feeds.

If a user's RSS channel feed ever does get spammed (not an issue at
this time), the user simply clicks the DELETE RSS channel button
once.  It's gone, never to return.  Remember, the user picks and
chooses what hits their RSS in-box.

RSS being an XML script, it can take the RSS feed across a wide
array of viewers, including PDA, CELL PHONES, and in the future,
watch dial faces, or that embedded LCD screen in your belly button.

RSS can be advantageous to the marketer, as well.  Sharon Housley
suggests that RSS is for business and not for blogging.  In your
eyes, this may be a good thing.  Maintaining an EASY BLOG is time
consuming and costly as well as being competitive with some
100,000,000 other blogs.

I realize that a young lady won the 2005 Best Blog Awards by
blogging about her thumb's wart, however, an user is looking for
substance and if you're blogging warts, most likely the user, who in
your case is a potential customer, will disappear and you'll be left
all alone with wart on your thumb.

Marketers may see RSS as a disadvantage since it doesn't allow for
creating email list data bases.  Is there a cost associated with
creating and maintaining an email data base?  Suppose you use the
time, money, and energy of email data bases in your re-thinking of
how better to present your SUBSTANCE to your users?  Isn't it more
fun and colorful to spend your limited time talking about and
creatively demonstrating your products and services then with
screwing around with email lists?

Don't fear.  Handy script will be created and available to you to
clock how many times the RSS feed button is consumed and by whom,
more or less.

During the transition, you don't have to entirely give up your email
can-pain.  I realize that marketing is all about throwing spaghetti
on the wall and seeing how much sticks.  In other words, you don't
know the wall (of people).  Some will respond to email, others to
RSS, and the remaining will fall to the floor.

Read the reads I provided above and get ur behind up into that tree
and do some serious R-S-S-I-N-G!

"Quit MSN'n around, Dick"

I'll close by mentioning that this Adam guy (who?) slipped in the
MSIE 7.0 browser.  Personally, I prefer to slip into something more
comfortable like the Mozilla FireFox. Foxy!  But that's me.  It
certainly makes acquiring and using the wizz RSS reader a breeze.
Foxy!  I now Digest LEDS using my RSS wizzywhigger.

If all y'all are MSers, come this fourth quarter, MS will begin
their eat this can-pain and MSIE 6.0xxx will disappear.  Woe is me.
I'm 1 of the 1.6% internet surfers who are using WIN98SE and MSIE
7.0 won't work.  WIN98SE is no longer supported, like, as if it ever
was supported.  However, here is the soft spot.  Uncle Spam and Aunt
Cracker-Hacker are now concentrating on XP users, and soon, ViSTa
users.  I'll be VERY SAFE.  Remember, the money is where the masses
is.  XP and VISTA are designed for the general public, the masses
who is looking for the EASY.

Kind regards,

Al Toman
webmaster, studio9.ws

<Moderator Comment>

Al... 

To clarify, I use Firefox not IE. I think you may be referring to
Tom Aman [see issue 2247] who is an IE devotee.

If you need to know who I am, you can find out here:
http://www.led-digest.com/content/view/40/79/

You can also learn all about the LED Digest here:
http://www.led-digest.com/content/category/9/32/79/

Welcome to the list,

Adam Audette, Publisher
LED Digest | the email discussion list
http://www.led-digest.com/


==== BILLBOARD ===================================

From: Viggie Bala
Subject: New IE7 Browser [was: The Evolution of Email]

> In addition to giving tabbed browsing...
> it does include provision for RSS, including
> an icon that changes color when a page
> includes an RSS feed...
        - Tom Aman, LED 2247

Reading Tom's comment I felt that this is how general mainstream
public will react on new IE7.  This does not mean Tom Aman is one of
mainstream public outside the web developer arena.

Tom's personal preference on IE and dislike for tabbed browsing is
well known.  But reading through his comment, it seems tabbed
browsing and RSS icon will be looked anew by the general users.
Some may even feel that this is a new technology even though these
were available in other browsers for long.

Whether we like it or not, we are very much tied down because of
IE's limits.  I haven't tried IE7, but would like to know from those
who used it, whether it supports pure CSS menus now.  Does it show
drop down menus on this page?
http://meyerweb.com/eric/css/edge/menus/demo.html. (All other
browsers show drop down menus in the above page.)

If IE7 did that, it will be one major development for the whole
community.  We don't have to depend on javascript for drop down
menus.

Viggie Bala


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