| LED Digest 2055: Golden Advice |
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================================================== The LED Digest Moderated Discussion List "Effective Online Advertising, Since 1997" pair Networks: The LED's Web Host Hosting and Domain Reg. from a Trusted Leader pair.com for Hosting | pairNIC.com for Domains ================================================== List Moderator: Published by: Adam Audette LED Digest post, led-digest.com http://www.led-digest.com .............................................. December 15, 2005 Issue #2055 .............................................. .....IN THIS DIGEST..... ==== NEW ======================= --== Google Schemes & Google Droppings ==-- ~ Jonathan Webb "...never rely on one website for all your business." ==== CONTINUING ================= --== The Reciprocal Linking Thread ==-- ~ Noah Masterson "...I would say reciprocal links - when done selectively - can be a very good thing." ~ Dirk Johnson "I see many instances where 'non-relevant' linking seems to have no effect on Google..." ~ Robert Bass "I have never spent any time trying to get others to link to my site..." ==== BILLBOARD =================== --== LEDer Feedback ==-- ~ Paul Bromby ~ Phil Chave ~ Val Waldeck ~ Scott Marino ======== NEW ===================================== From: Jonathan Webb Subject: Google droppings I experienced a sudden unexplained overnight Google drop in May from no. 1 to no. several hundred on various specialist searches where it should have been 1. Some of you may recall I had posted previously. Well 6 months later, possibly 6 months to the day, it suddenly bounce back. I went mad trying to find what the problem was, trying all sorts, adding links, removing links, removing redirects, removing my forum, adding text, removing duplicated sections of text all of which made not a jot of difference. If you've made any recent changes then you could try undoing them and I assume there is nothing unethical there. My theory is Google uses these random rank droppings to force people to buy Google adwords... its a nice little earner for Google. I have one golden piece of advice for everyone, never rely on one website for all your business. Prepare some separate ones with similar but not identical content (sell same thing but re word all the text, use different domain name and don't interlink) Even if it is just a one or two page website it will be there waiting in the wings for when you get Google blacklisted... the day you get blacklisted you can add lots of content and it will soon be listed. Remember you cannot build new websites to get out of a Google blacklist problem because they sandbox them for 6 months... a very convenient and profitable "co-incidence" for Google don't you think. I built my first two "reserve websites" as soon as I was blacklisted but they only started to rank properly as I came out of the blacklist. I now have my main website plus 6 reserve websites. Two with serious content levels, 3 with enough content to keep them reasonable well googled when they are out of the sandbox and one is just a 1 page holding page at the moment but will have some content shortly. If Google try their "Dick Turpin" approach to business again I will probably be able to forget one website for 6 months and use one or more of the others. RE linking in general. I think any attempt at using links to gain Google rank is flawed. It may or may not work today, but if it does work it can just as easily count against another day. I use links only to gain visitors... not a link hidden on a never visited links page, but clear links in the body of other websites that people want to follow. My business is aerial photography so I give a free small picture to suitable websites in exchange for an adjacent link. The policy is successful and during my Google blacklist period my main source of visitors was through these links. Going back to the Cyprus estate website, how about providing content such as photographs or text for local websites such as websites about local history, local architecture, local amenities etc. Regards, Jonathan Webb www.webbaviation.co.uk ======== CONTINUING =============================== From: Noah Masterson Subject: Linking Dirk Johnson wrote: > it may be helpful to talk directly to the site > owner / managers out there on this list. In that vein, I thought I'd comment on some unintended, but positive, consequences of adding links on our site, www.dc-baby.com. We link to websites with content relative to ours, and especially to businesses featured in our book, "DC BABY." We have done this gradually and selectively, using Blogrolling (www.blogrolling.com) to manage them all (we're up to 82 as of this post), and most of the sites reciprocate. Not surprisingly, our search-engine rankings have improved, and traffic and sales have increased. The unintended result occurred when a local radio show interviewed my wife about the book. The DJ didn't just recommend the book; he recommended visiting our website *specifically for the quality of links* we feature. Traffic and sales doubled that day. Based on this one example, I would say reciprocal links - when done selectively - can be a very good thing. (And radio could be the subject of another thread altogether; I had no idea it could be so powerful.) Noah Masterson www.dc-baby.com ------- new post - same topic ------ From: Dirk Johnson Subject: Linking > On the surface these links... would appear totally > irrelevant. But the links to these sites let my potential > customers get an idea of the variety of sites for > which the software was useful. - Tom Aman, LED 2054 Tom, You should link with any site with which you have an established business relationship, if you choose to do it. There's a huge difference between that and simply soliciting unrelated sites for links. That's what Joel Lesser was referring to. How does that make a difference to Google? I don't really know. Certainly, Google does realize that sites have a need to link in ways that seem to be not relevant. I see many instances where "non-relevant" linking seems to have no effect on Google either way. The primary reason to keep a link building campaign (as opposed to a business partner list, as your is) relevant is because it is the right thing to do between human beings, and not because of search engines. Asking an automotive site to link to a health supplement site just for the link is wrong, at any level. It wastes everyone's time. The human factor. But if you sell your products to both automotive sites and health supplement sites, and want to promote them both on your own site, you should probably do it. You need to run your business first. How that affects the search engines (if at all) must be secondary. Link as if Google does not exist. Best regards, Dirk Johnson, Partner - Operations DomainDrivers LLC www.domaindrivers.com ------- new post - same topic ------ From: Robert Bass Subject: Linking > But don't load the pages up with Google or Yahoo! ads. > I abandon sites that make the advertising the central > focus of the visitor experience. I expect ads on a news-oriented > site, but I prefer the sites that don't make the ads intrusive. > I don't expect ads on sites that supposedly make their > money through other means. If you sell stuffed toys, > why do you need Google ad revenue? - Michael Martinez, LED 2054 Amen to that! I have never spent any time trying to get others to link to my site, I have never promoted nor linked to other sites and I have had my site up and running since 1998. Profitably. When I got all the letters from the SEO outfits I ignored them. When I got all the letters from Linkshare and the like I ignored them. When I got all the letters from the link farm specialists, I ignored them also. And when Google said they want to advertise "content specific" ads on my site, I ignored them too. I concentrate on making my site interesting to my visitors, making them want to come back. I get letters weekly from people who tell me how much they enjoyed visiting my site and how they will return time and again. And they do. What is the average time people stay on a site..I've heard it is something like eight seconds. To date I have had over six hundred thousand unique visitors and all told I average over fifteen hundred hits a day with most staying an hour or more. What does my average one hour visitor tell you? Is he there to see the ads or see what I have to offer? As there are no ads, the answer is obvious. My bottom line is what counts and it is a proper sum to say the least. I have never seen the point of spending the money I spend to advertise my site and host it for the purpose of running ads for other people. For the occasional quarter I would get from the occasional click? Hardly the intent of a commercial website, a commercial website is there to promote and sell products or services FOR MONEY. All this talk of linking and advertising reminds me of the story of the little boy who asked his father why there was a red light on the top of the tower. "So the airplanes do not hit the tower" replies the father. "And what is the tower for" asks the boy. "To hold up the red light" answers the dad. To which I will add that somebody is collecting the rent on the tower, just as somebody is collecting the fees for the ads and links on your site. If the best you can offer is links and ads to other sites, we don't need that site slowing down the internet. Make the site and products / services interesting and the word gets out fast. Go to any mall, how many ads for other stores do you see in a specialty shop? How many flyers promoting other businesses are handed to you? Take the hint. Robert Bass, Webmaster Jewelex.com ==== BILLBOARD =================================== From: Paul Bromby Adam Yes, I did miss LED Yes, I find it useful, in two ways: - Often there are useful discussions which keep us up to speed with what's happening in web world. - Occassionally there are gems of information which we pick up on which help us to improve our service to customers. Our business is still dynamic, and there is plenty of change to remark upon and to deal with. So please keep going! Best Regards Paul Bromby, Managing Director Project Development Consultants Ltd info, pdcnet.org.uk ------- next post ------- From: Phil Chave On the Question of How Useful is LED? Hi Adam Here's how useful I think LED has been to me. Look at the date. bCentral Daily Digest List Moderator: Supported by: Adam Audette bCentral This email address is being protected from spam bots, you need Javascript enabled to view it http://g.msn.com/0NL48253/697 ................................................ July 15, 2002 Digest #1374 That's as far as I can go back on this computer, but I can go back to around #800 if I dig out the disc. Mainly because saving the Outlook email files to CDs from previous computers, importing them into this computer and using a snazzy little bit of software called OE Viewer, which is available from http://www.mitec.cz/misctools.htm has made the wealth of information from bCentral and LED available over and over again. I'm sure there are lots of us with large libraries of these emails, when so much else is consigned to the delete folder, and is a testiment to the integrity of the list, it's moderator and it's authors. And I, along with all the other people who find this Digest so useful, Thank You. Best regards for the New Year and the future, Phil Chave www.distanthealer.co.uk ------- next post ------- From: Val Waldeck Hi Adam, I have been "lurking" on this list for a very, very long time and learned SO much. I would be very sad to see the list go down. It is achieiving much more than you realise. Blessings! Val Waldeck www.valwaldeck.com reaching our generation one book at a time ------- next post ------- From: Scott Marino Adam, Glad to hear things are busy, hopefully with bigger, better and exciting things. I just looked through my e-mail archives (I am a real pack-rat when it comes to e-mail) and see I started with issue #499 on 12/23/1998. At that time, WebUndies was just being born as an idea from seeing funny boxers on sale at the local mall during the holidays. In the 7 years and 1,500+ editions of the LED, I have learned and grown our site from a part-time basement business into a very successful full-time venture in a large warehouse. I still read every issue, although I do find myself scanning the topics and skipping more these days. The internet has changed greatly since the list started. New search engines, new ppc search engines, more payment processors, more shopping carts, better web editing software and such have made it much easier to enter the world of e-commence, yet harder to have success at it. For me, the LED was a very helpful learning tool. There was much to be learned and there were new, emerging, opportunities to grow a business. I can't say that opportunity is not there now, it is just very different than before. Gone are the days of tweaking the title tags on your images to get better placement in the search engines. It's just not that easy anymore. It might be time for the LED to morph into a new form that suits today's internet landscape or to return to its roots as a forum for webmasters and business owners to share ideas on how to grow a business and to learn about e-commerce. If you decide to end the LED, I would respect that decision, thank you for the valuable information you provided and offer you my best wishes for success in your next venture. If you keep publishing it, I will keep reading as I have for almost 7 years now. Regards, Scott Marino, President WebUndies.com ------------------------------------------------------- The LED Digest is sponsored by pair Networks: pair.com for Hosting | pairNIC.com for Domains Copyright 1995-2005 Orange Wheel, LLC. All Rights Reserved. ----------------------------------------------------------------- "They consider me to have sharp and penetrating vision because I see them through the mesh of a sieve." - Kahlil Gibran |
