| LED Digest 1770: Plugging Away at DMOZ & Local Search Doubts |
|
|
|
================================================== The LED Digest Moderated Discussion List "Effective Online Advertising, Since 1997" pair Networks: The LED's Web Host Hosting and Domain Reg. from a Trusted Leader pair.com for Hosting | pairNIC.com for Domains ================================================== List Moderator: Published by: Adam Audette LED Digest adam,led-digest.com http://www.led-digest.com ................................................ March 22, 2004 Issue #1770 ................................................ .....IN THIS DIGEST..... ==== CONTINUING ================= <Moderator Comment> ~ I'm outa' here... --== The Local Search Buzz ==-- ~ Ian Dickson "Local Search is something that will be a very hard sell..." ~ Jim Berry "This isn't meant as a slight to David, but...it strikes us as an effort in futility." --== Stand-Alone Optimized Pages ==-- ~ Beth Ann Earle "It's a matter of constant vigilance and education." --== All About DMOZ ==-- ~ Peggy Deras "[DMOZ editors] like me, just keep plugging away as we have the time." ==== BILLBOARD =================== --== My Affiliates Outdoing Me? ==-- ~ Steven Rothberg --== Trademark Use Guidelines ==-- ~ Ian Dickson ===== CONTINUING ================================= <Moderator Comment> So... I lied! In Friday's issue I said that we'd have a short week at the LED with issues just Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday. I'm going to have to change that as I can't guarantee I'll have Internet access at all this week, so this may be the week's only issue. I know you'll miss your trusty LED, but you'll live! :-) and we'll be back in action Monday the 29th. Until then, I'm Alaska bound! Best wishes, Adam ------------------------ From: Ian Dickson Subject: Local search Local Search is something that will be a very hard sell as a "thing you do special". It will work when it is part of something else that is part of your life. Local search into it's own when there are real local community sites - local community sites that are used by the community to communicate with each other, not just a place where few tacky brochureware pages for the local Pizza place sit around a deathly silent web forum... For information - we don't do local search, but we do have a platform for local community, and if anyone knows anyone who fancies being a local entrepreneur and building a local community (as a business - a people business not a tech one), we're open to giving a licence or two away by way of experiment. (If we are right, and they make it work, it's highly franchisable....) For David Yancy - in the UK and most of Europe think in terms of 80% of customers within 5 miles for businesses with a local model. (A 50 mile circle here is a regional one). I'd guess that this would apply even in the US urban areas. Cheers Ian Dickson http://www.commkit.com ------- new post - same topic ------- From: Jim Berry Subject: Local search Re Google's Local Search > As they say, "Imitation is the highest form of flattery"... > A few hours ago, Google began Beta-testing their latest > attempt at "local search" (http://local.google.com)... > Google have essentially copied our search interface > (vivante.com). - David Yancey, LED 1768 We missed the reference in the Google news to the Vivante resource for Google's new search feature... but we're excited to read the first release! Additionally, nice plug from Adam on Vivante, and good for you David! We commend anyone for trying to tackle an 800 lb Gorilla (or two) in the local search engine wars, so David Yancey certainly earns stars for his determination, but as Simon Cowell would likely say: "David, I just don't see it as the next American Idol". This isn't meant as a slight to David, but more to the insurmountable odds faced when trying to unseat any of the "big three". It strikes us as an effort in futility. Assuming for a moment that Vivante IS the 'discovery of fire' as the press is suddenly calling "local search", the nagging question remains: Just how do you bring yet ANOTHER search engine into the mix and have any hope of grabbing even a miniscule amount of business to make it worth the effort? Short of spending millions on a Super Bowl ad to announce that it exists, how does David plan to market Vivante so it becomes the search engine of choice for locals? We keep expecting to see the VivanteBot in our web logs. (yes, we know it's paid inclusion) Our comments are presented in the spirit of competition, and admittedly a bit of wonder, as our Directory has been successfully providing local search results for the Accounting, Tax and Bookkeeping profession for 3 years now, and we never thought it any great discovery - only a logical approach for logical people. Jim Berry, Director of Sales & Marketing www.bookkeepinghelp.com jim [at] bookkeepinghelp.com ------- new post - new topic ------- From: Beth Ann Earle Subject: Stand alones > ... with reference to Beth Earle's comments [issue 1768] about > stand-alone, optimized sites: What she is describing are not > "doorway pages", but mini-sites. The two are radically different. - Tom Anson, LED 1769 Thanks, Tom, for your candid feedback. We don't feel that they're doorway pages, either, but with the descriptions that some people use for doorway pages, I always have the fear that a partially educated client or prospect will form the wrong opinion about who we are and what we do. It's a matter of constant vigilance and education. Beth Ann Earle ------- new post - new topic ------- From: Peggy Deras Subject: DMOZ > I suspect that DMOZ is going to kill itself off. I've submitted > numerous excellent sites for both myself, and for my clients, > and have only ONCE received a single, standard rejection > notice. (Without any explanations.) - Marty Millette, LED 1769 As a DMOZ editor of a small sub-category I can tell you that I have responded (helpfully I hope) to any email I have received from a submitter. I also regularly send explanatory emails, whenever I reject a submission, with instructions and suggestions on how to correct the deficiencies and get approved on the next submission. The negatives, for me, are when submitters are arrogant and pushy, believing approval is their right rather than a privilege they must earn with good content for the public. I became an editor a couple of years ago because there was no editor in my category and I wanted my own submission listed. It took a while before my application came to the top and I was approved. That's because the applications have to wait for another volunteer to have time to review them. I now log on occasionally and run down the list of applications and try to get them all approved, rejected or redirected to the correct category. This, however, is NOT my day job. I continue because I am devoted to the concept of CONTENT on the web, and there is nobody else to do it. I can tell you this: I have learned more about what makes a good web site from my work as a DMOZ editor that anywhere else, except maybe this forum. So, if you want DMOZ to continue its great work... volunteer and give a few hours to improving it, instead of criticizing from the outside.. DMOZ is run entirely by volunteers and they are overwhelmed by the exponential growth of the web. But they, like me, just keep plugging away as we have the time. DMOZ editor: http://snipurl.com/57cz [dmoz.org] Peggy Deras, CKD, CID Kitchen Artworks www.kitchenartworks.com ==== BILLBOARD ==================================== From: Steven Rothberg Subject: Affiliates > The # 4 listing in Yahoo under the search term "belt buckle knife" > (without the qoutes) is an affiliate link to my site... How in the > world would an affiliate link get into their search results...? - Phil Weaver, LED 1769 It always baffles me why merchants are so concerned when their affiliates succeed in obtaining high rankings in search engines. I suppose those merchants are often the same business owners who are concerned when they realize that they don't pay themselves as much as they pay their top salespeople. People, it is a good thing to pay your salespeople more than you pay yourselves. Salespeople only make a lot of money when they sell a lot. When they sell a lot, you make more money than you otherwise would have. Don't be jealous and try to find ways to knock them down, as your actions will only take you down with them. Instead, be thrilled when you are able to pay your salespeople more than you pay yourself. It doesn't mean that you're earning less, it just means that they're expanding the size of your pie. Although you're getting a smaller percentage of the pie, you're getting a bigger piece than you would have. Our college job board went live in 1996 and we launched our first affiliate program in 1998. I said it then, I've said it hundreds of times since, and I'll say it again today: top affiliates are salespeople and not only deserve to be treated as such, but merchants should want to treat them as such. Take care of them and they'll take care of your bottom line. And isn't that the name of the game? Steven Rothberg http://www.collegerecruiter.com ------- new post - new topic ------- From: Ian Dickson Subject: Trademark use > Does anyone have a good reference on how a trademark may, > or may not be used on a web site? Anyone have any good guidelines? - Marty R. Milette, LED 1769 Trademark owners are free to threaten actions that they might lose because most people don't want to fight. This raises the question of WHO to threaten. The answer is the person who can give you victory with the least amount of effort. It is common for people to threaten hosting companies with lots of things because they know that the hosting company wants a quiet life - so a letter to a hosting company can result in the removal of your site simply because the hosting company doesn't want the aggro and deems your business not worth the fight. This does not prevent you attaching your own server to the Net of course. If you do that then the plaintiff has to decide to take you on in the courts, or back off. Google (I think) recently had an issue on this re a link, and they removed a link, but replaced it with a link to a document that explained why the link had been removed, and IIRC because the document was a legal one Google were entirely within their rights. So in that case the plaintiffs victory was Pyrrhic. Ian Dickson http://www.commkit.com ------------------------------------------------------- The LED Digest is sponsored by pair Networks: pair.com for Hosting | pairNIC.com for Domains Copyright 1995-2004 Adam Audette. All Rights Reserved. ----------------------------------------------------------------- "In terms of wilderness preservation, Alaska is the last frontier." - Morris Udall |
