| LED Digest 1775: Did Google Get Smarter? + the SEO Industry |
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================================================== The LED Digest Moderated Discussion List "Effective Online Advertising, Since 1997" pair Networks: The LED's Web Host Hosting and Domain Reg. from a Trusted Leader pair.com for Hosting | pairNIC.com for Domains ================================================== List Moderator: Published by: Adam Audette LED Digest adam,led-digest.com http://www.led-digest.com ................................................ April 4, 2004 Issue #1775 ................................................ .....IN THIS DIGEST..... ====== NEW ====================== <Moderator Comment> --== Did Google Get Smarter? ==-- ~ Jack Yan "Surfing to Google today and searching for 'fashion magazines'..." ==== CONTINUING ================= --== Choosing an SEO ==-- ~ Jeff Meister "What's a good way to filter out the many scam artists out there?" ~ Shari Thurow "...it's unusual to hear an SEM be embarrassed to be in the industry, but I am." --== HTML Editors? ==-- ~ Bruce Garrett "Usually I code directly." ~ Lisa Alvarado "Hand-coding is fine for those who like it. I hate it." ~ Martin kersten "...all big companies are looking for their own standards..." --== The Local Search Buzz ==-- ~ John Barendrecht "I do not see local search as the next killer search engine." ==== BILLBOARD =================== --== Email Distribution Software? ==-- ~ Richard Stubbings --== Revenue Models ==-- ~ Sunny Jamiel ====== NEW ======================================= <Moderator Comment> This is one of those "please have patience" posts I need to write from time to time. I'm slammed with posts, most of them fantastic and we simply don't have enough space. I'll get them all published, and hopefully in a timely / orderly manner that respects the threads they represent. Just expect it to take a bit more time than usual. That said, this is a tremendous issue and I hope you enjoy it as much as I did. :-) Thanks LEDer, Adam --------------------- From: Jack Yan Subject: Did Google get smarter? Hi everyone: Surfing to Google today and searching for "fashion magazines", I was interested to note that Conde Nast's Style.com and Hachette Filipacchi's Elle.com are more highly ranked than usual. No surprises, you might think: these are newsstand spinoffs with a lot of goodwill. However, I was kindly told here at LED that Google, while placing less emphasis on keywords these days, does look at the content. In these cases, within that content, I find mostly images with practically no ALT tags to suggest that the pages signify fashion or a magazine. (That's me trying to imagine what a computer would see.) At least with the other top 10 titles, it's clear that they are fashion magazines - but how did these two sites get up there? Does Google somehow know of their offline presences, is this a user-search-based decision (and if so, how does the little guy get ahead?), or is there another explanation? Kind regards, Jack Yan, CEO Jack Yan & Associates http://www.jyanet.com ===== CONTINUING ================================= From: Jeff Meister Subject: Paying for SEO services I am looking to outsource some marketing and promotional tasks and have been getting some offers for SEO services for flat monthly rates a month ranging from US$700 on up for month for a minimum of 6 months. What's a good way to filter out the many scam artists out there? With a limited budget I suggested to pay variably for the increased traffic on my site (i.e so many $ for so many more visits); this could potentially be more expensive than a flat rate, and I'm willing, but was told no way. Is this out of line? If I were boasting how good my services were this is how I would back it up? If a flat rate is the only way, what about guarantees such as increases traffic and / or top 10 placements? Thanks for any advice. Jeff Meister www.fund-track.com -------- new post - same topic -------- From: Shari Thurow Subject: Choosing an SEO Hi all- This is in response to the discussion thread on attraction pages, which they are now calling Search Engine Entry (SEE) pages. I somewhat disagree with Mark Scriven's post in LED #1773 in which he states that Bill Davidson's comments are "extreme". > There are some really unsavory characters claiming to be > quality SEO's. Genuine quality SEO companies are quite > pricey! Get a written contract and KNOW what you are getting > before you leap. Otherwise, RUN! when approached by an SEO! - Bill Davison, LED 1771 I am giving my honest opinion. I feel that most search engine marketing companies (SEM) are not quality companies. Many companies that claim to do SEM are actually search engine advertising specialists. Search engine marketing encompasses a number of skills including advertising, optimization, submission, directories, Web analytics, and others. Search engine advertising is only one piece of the puzzle. Many companies that claim to do optimization are quite scary. Knowing true SEO means that the SEO expert must have technical, marketing, copywriting, and design skills. Sure, it might be easy to add a text-link navigation and a site map, but can the SEO company fix a URL problem in a CFM or ASP site? Knowing how to troubleshoot a database site is far more difficult than troubleshooting a static site. I am dumbfounded at the number of people who claim to be experts only to get a hold of reports where I see my and Danny Sullivan's conference presentations reproduced in some way, shape, or form. (Yes, I manage to get a hold of my competitor's reports from time to time.) The lack of design and usability skills blows my mind. Then there are the cloaking / spam companies that only have programming skills and do nothing to change the site. Most of these programmers have no design or marketing skills. And, quite frankly, I've decloaked their pages. I would be ashamed to be the designer / marketer associated with these pages. I'm sure that it's unusual to hear an SEM be embarrassed to be in the industry, but I am. Too many companies want that SEM income, but I question the quality of work that they do. Best wishes, Shari Thurow, Webmaster/Marketing Director ~ Search Engine Visibility book now available http://www.searchenginesbook.com/ ------- new post - new topic ------- From: Bruce Garrett Subject: HTML editors > I'd like some opinions on HTML editors... Dreamweaver, > Frontpage (2000 or newer), others? What can you recommend > for a "skilled amateur" (not a pro)? - Carol O'Leary, LED 1771 To add my 2 cents to this conversation. I have been using FrontPage for a number of years, including 2000, 2002, and 2003. I agree, it still writes clunky code and adds a ton of "stuff" that really isn't needed. I do like the ability to quickly flip from code to "preview." Usually I code directly. The few times I let FP do the coding I have to go back and clean it up. Why do I continue to put up with it? It is an easy program to use, most of my clients use it and it has FTP built in. I've tried DreamWeaver but not spent the time to become comfortable with it. First Page 2000 is a nice free program but the most current version available for downloading has a virus embedded in it. For most purposes Notepad works just fine. It just is not as convenient to use. Thanks for letting me add my 2 cents. Bruce W. Garrett bgarrett [at] archive-cd [dot] com ------- new post - same topic ------- From: Lisa Alvarado Subject: Can't Code, Can't Help it. I recently quit a web class because my professor would not let me use Dreamweaver for a web project. He taught using Visual Basic which is fine for him. I am an artist, designer, and completely WYSIWYG and don't ever expect to hand code anything. I can't remember where all the punctuation goes and I don't want to even try. I have designed more than 10 websites so far and I'm doing fine with Dreamweaver. Hand-coding is fine for those who like it. I hate it. Dreamweaver allows me to be faster, more efficient, and more economical for my clients. Lisa Alvarado http://www.seahorsegraphics.com ------- new post - same topic ------- From: Martin kersten Subject: HTML editors To be true In the very beginning I started with FP express. Later I started to use a WYSIWYG editor with build in Java. The editor does not work anymore since the new upgrades from Microsoft but ok (bye bye money). When I found out that pages only designed under IE and written with certain editors could not be viewed by other browsers, I started to work with Linux. I was surprised that pages developed under Linux could be viewed in almost all the popular browsers also IE from Microsoft. Although I am just a simple designer I think it is important to be capable of viewing my pages approximately the same in different browsers and more important they do the same when simple services are implemented. But actually I think the real problem at the moment, is all big companies are looking for their own standards at this time of writing and are making themselves or others very dependent. Standards are nice but difficult to implement even for simple designers like me and especially when there is that much variation. Even W3C has certain thoughts about how you should design a webpage and according to them you should never work with frames although frames have certain advantages. So what I think is most important off all try to find the best program that suits your needs. What is important for you and what is importantant for your client. Do you want to reach many people or only a certain group of OS depending users. Remember a website is not an operating system but a message to everybody. Since the opening of the BBS's and afterwards the Internet many things made their own way of living. And when you maybe only are a die hard to reach all the groups; you will never be able to gain what you want and that is "everybody on the web" (impossible off course) just because the Internet in spite off its growth is still a child. On the other hand programs are nice that is why I use editors for code and graphical programs for pictures etc. and stopped with WYSIWYG editors. Because of experience I will never rely to use only one program with a big name anymore. And when something new is coming up I check out first if it is really some help. Still I believe W3C is off great importance although I think they are getting to complicated and mixed up right now. The pages of W3C are becoming more and more unfriendly, people and organization members are very important. And when you try to find out what is really important you will first have to view a lot of uninteresting pages with information about contributors before the answers you really ask are answered, the same complaint is for OS sellers. I am really curious to know what kind of reactions this message will generate. Friendly greeting Martin kersten Dolmar IT http://dolmarit.com ------- new post - new topic ------- From: John Barendrecht Subject: Local search Local search is going to be a tough sell, for Google or Vivante. I think in any large market, you're going to find that 90% of the businesses don't have a web site. Of the other 10%, for major stores, some websites may be quite good. However, a lot of local brick and mortar stores aren't set up for internet sales. Some catalog sites may enhance store sales. Others, such as Starbuck's locations, I can get from Yellow Pages. Business owners are going to find out that building, maintaining and promoting a quality web site is time consuming and expensive. Just changing your description for holiday or other event sales on Vivante will take time. Will the profit justify the time and costs? And Vivante is not the only search engine. Other than hearing about it on this list, I never heard about Vivante. I know, David Yancey will point out that he's never heard of my site either. Welcome to the Internet where 5% of all sites are listed in search engines and we've visited less than 1% of the listed sites. Personally, I have no interest in local search or a local search engine. My sites sell to 60 countries and we are internet based only, no retail store. Just for interest, I tried Vivante and searched for stores in San Francisco. This took 2 clicks rather than Google's 1 click. Of the top 5 results, one site had only an under construction sign, 2 seemed relative to my search. From #5 on, the results were for "stores" and had no geo component. The #6 result was located in Argentina. Others were in Florida, etc. Cruising around Vivante, I found that most of the site resembled a Yahoo or DMOZ directory site with no geographic targeting. Sorry, I did not read any of the instructions on how to search. Who reads instruction books? I found it a little more confusing than Yahoo but in fairness, I have been visiting Yahoo for many years and this was my first visit to Vivante. For those who want to advertise locally, it is always good to have competition to the major search engines. I do not see local search as the next killer search engine. John Barendrecht http://www.videoridge.com ==== BILLBOARD ==================================== From: Richard Stubbings Subject: Email software > Twice a year, I deliver a email newsletter to approximately > 50,000 of my customers. Can anyone recommend a good > solution (software or service) to deliver an email newsletter...? - Edward Wimmer, LED 1774 Group mail from Infacta is a great piece of software for group mailing. A word of caution. The software is licenced and they will withdraw the licence if you spam. Richard Stubbings Kulture Shock http://www.kultureshock.co.uk ------- new post - new topic ------- From: Sunny Jamiel Subject: Revenue Models for Self-help Sites I am running a self-help / personal development site [URL below] for a year now and haven't been able to find a proper revenue model for the site. I tried Amazon, very poor results, I tried affiliates, same results, now with Google AdSense I have just started so don't know what will come out of it. What in your opinion would be a better revenue model for a self help site? My Alexa ranking at this moment is 261,466, which I am told that is like being in the top 2% of the 16 million sites that Alexa tracks. And my average visits per day is 30-40. I don't understand that how come a site in the top 2% gets only 30-40 visits per day. Either it is not top 2% or there is something I am missing here. Any explanations? Thank you, Sunny Jamiel http://www.attractingsuccess.com/ ------------------------------------------------------- The LED Digest is sponsored by pair Networks: pair.com for Hosting | pairNIC.com for Domains Copyright 1995-2004 Adam Audette. All Rights Reserved. ----------------------------------------------------------------- "The public have an insatiable curiosity to know everything. Except what is worth knowing. Journalism, conscious of this, and having tradesman-like habits, supplies their demands." - Oscar Wilde |
