| LED Digest 2267: Natural Search ROI Falling? |
|
|
|
Topics: Google, You Tube, and bubbles. You Tube for marketing. Is your ROI for natural search falling? How about directories? SMO and link bait and how they work. Google Checkout usability. Search and usability. ================================================== The LED Digest Moderated Discussion List "Effective Online Advertising, Since 1997" Data > Information > Knowledge > Wisdom pair Networks: The LED's Web Host Hosting and Domain Registration from a Trusted Leader pair.com for Hosting | pairNIC.com for Domains ================================================== List Moderator: Published by: Adam Audette LED Digest adam, led-digest.com http://www.led-digest.com .............................................. October 16, 2006 Issue no. 2267 .............................................. .....IN THIS DIGEST..... ==== CONTINUING ================= --== Another Bubble? Google & YouTube ==-- ~ John Smart "It is interesting to see where it will go..." --== YouTube for Marketing ==-- ~ David Spahr "...you would have a big mountain to climb competition wise." --== Natural Search Effectiveness [was: Local...] ==-- ~ Shaun Johnston "...SEO for natural listings comes way down that list. Directories are rising up..." --== SMO and Link Bait ==-- ~ Dirk Johnson "Link bait is just creating content and site features that people want to use." --== Google Checkout ==-- ~ Al Toman "My primary concern with [Google Checkout] is, 'ease of use by customer'." --== Usability and Search ==-- ~ Brett Atkin "...I must disagree with Shari Thurow's statements concerning SEO & marketing..." ======== CONTINUING =============================== From: John Smart Subject: Bubble > And your thoughts on Google buying You Tube? > Is You Tube worth 1.65 billion dollars? Are we on > the verge of another internet bubble fueled by > badly done homemade video clips? - Ronni Rhodes, LED Digest 2266 - http://www.led-digest.com/content/view/1199/55/ It is interesting to see where it will go -- for a long time now, bbc.co.uk has had video content available to UK viewers only (IU had no problems accessing it, even from California, but apparently I am not meant to do that). Now ABC -- one of the main TV channels shows its TV shows through its web site the day after they aired on TV -- I have not yet watched one to see the quality, but the idea is interesting. The merger of TV and PV -- our DVR has fire wire, USB, and 100 Base-T on the back. It is also our cable decoder box -- at what stage will it mix with web sites? We already have movies and TV shows on demand. I heard a lot about You tube from British radio (virginradio.co.uk -- if you have high speed internet, why are you not listening to this?!) where a DJ was talking about using you tube to see old music videos that are hard to find elsewhere. Frankly, I cannot see it lasting very long -- seems pointless to me -- but be warned, I said that about blogging too. John Smart InternetDesign.com - A Human Touch in a Digital World -------- new post - new topic -------- From: David Spahr Subject: You Tube for Marketing and Advertising > ... to tap into the world-wide market [I'll] make a short > video and stick it on YouTube. To emphasise the ease > with which the tool works, I shall be using a suitably > dressed young lady; hard hat, boots and not much else. - James Miller, LED Digest 2266 - http://www.led-digest.com/content/view/1199/55/ Have you actually looked at YouTube? Do you actually spend time there? I do. I know enough to know that nudity is not allowed. As far as "almost" type of content goes, you would have a big mountain to climb competition wise. It is a great venue for those who are in the music, video and media business. It attracts people who enjoy music and video. It is also very much about teenage angst. I discovered it fairly recently and visit it almost daily. Wanna see great old Jimi Hendrix videos? It is one of the most entertaining websites anywhere and Google probably made a very wise move. > Does anybody have any thoughts on using YouTube > for promotional videos of products, where showing > how they work is the key to getting sales? Advertising post pullers is probably a waste of time and energy. You may succeed in getting someone to steal your idea but likely you won't get much business. You would need to have a really creative video to do that and I don't think this strategy qualifies. Looking at the most popular links of the day and of all time should tell you what this venue is good for. The most popular videos of all time are really worth the visit BTW. You can upload video to MySpace and would probably get a slightly wider following there. I can't say my own MySpace website has generated much interest though. David Spahr * Stereoviews.com * Antique-Photography.com * Stereoviews.info * Stereoviews.de * Stereoviews.co.uk -------- new post - new topic -------- From: Shaun Johnston Subject: The Effectiveness of Natural Search [was: Local Listings] > ... in the last year or two the big destination portals have > taken most of the top spots because their content is so > packed with redundant keywords for destination areas. > Our Hotel and Resort have been in the top 10 for years > on Google... we are placed 7th & 8th out of 1,190,000... - Bruce A. Flinn, LED Digest 2265 - http://www.led-digest.com/content/view/1178/55/ Bruce, your being 7 and 8 in Google could be helped by the URL you use, resortusa.com, which is in effect a directory. A neat ruse. I missed you first time through. Michael [Linehan], thanks for the confirmation that lodgings are being specially hit. And thanks for the list of proven SEO avenues. My heart sank a bit at "strategic / every day / varied." I'm trying to decide how much work is appropriate for a 10-room inn, which is what I have to estimate for today. They were paying $300 a month fee for marketing consulting, beside another $300 for sponsored listings, and I thought that $7000 a year was more than 10 rooms could support. But can one do what you're doing for less? I have to develop a top-down list of methods by visits delivered per hour of my time, and just cut off when I get to the point that a lodging can't justify the expense. I guestimate the value of a visit being around 75 cents in terms of value delivered, the cost of them from directories and search engine sponsorship averaging around 37 cents. Then I must keep the cost of my service down to within another 37 cents per visit. It's a hard discipline. And if you add in a contribution for cost of periodic web-site redesign and annual webmastering costs, what's left for consulting is very small, if one is to keep with that 75 cents per visit total online marketing cost What's new for me, using this basis, is that SEO for natural listings comes way down that list. Directories are rising up to the top. ROI analysis is much easier for directories over any other method, I think. Shaun Johnston -------- new post - new topic -------- From: Dirk Johnson Subject: Social Media Optimization (SMO) and Link Bait > It's all linkbait out there now. Yeah, linkbaiting, > something I haven't read much of on LED Digest > but is the current fad. Linkbaiting + 150 user accounts > at the major social sites = lots of eyeballs the cheap > way. The problem is, it really is cheap because the > content doesn't justify its traffic much of the time. - Nathan Holley, LED Digest 2265 - http://www.led-digest.com/content/view/1199/55/ Link bait is just more SEO-speak. It's the latest flavor, and a lot of very experienced people in this industry are buying in, as if it's some kind of new phenomenon. It's not. Link bait is just creating content and site features that people want to use. It's a concept that goes to the formation of the WWW. In the old days, it was simply called "make your site worthwhile". Now it's called "link bait", and it's packaged as some kind of SEO revelation. We all have to realize that these new SEO terms are generated and promoted for a reason. They sell books, seminars, and services, under the guise of being new concepts. From what I have seen, most of the concepts that are presented as "link bait" cannot be applied effectively to most sites. Many of these "cool" concepts are out of reach for most site owners. Sure, they are good ideas, in specific circumstances, but very limited in practical terms. Often, there is a siren call to make your content so compelling that other people will just automatically link to it in some kind of mesmerized stupor. What is not explained is how a real estate agent in Peoria accomplishes that. Maybe it's not explained because it is not really practical to expect it to happen. Not that good content is a bad thing, but the effect of "good content" on the link back profile of most sites is minimal, at best, unless there is some other catalyst at play. First, people need to realize that the content is there, and second, they need to have a compelling reason to link to it, once they find it. Even if it is good. Those are high thresholds for success. Yes, a real estate agent in Peoria should post good information about their marketplace. That goes without saying. But even if it is exemplary information about Peoria, how many other sites will have a reason to gratuitously cite it? Probably not many. Good content needs to be promoted. Links don't just happen magically. As for social networking, I fail to see how the RE agent in Peoria uses their MySpace page for anything more than incidental traffic. Gaming it with fake accounts, as Nathan mentioned, seems like an incredible waste of time and money. And should that agent also post a blog on their site? How much of their available time should they spend posting to this blog? What should they say that is not already on their site? Who'll read it? What if they are not a good writer? Or should the agent in Peoria instead cover their SEO basics well, get some links, and then go out and list and sell some houses? Or should they sit in their office typing "link bait" to promote on MySpace? These are legitimate questions to ask, as they have real bottom-line implications. Once again, the SEO world conveniently ignores the return-on-investment (ROI) aspects of these other leading-edge concepts. They cite examples of phenomenal results, which do exist. But quite often, they put forth concepts that are too expensive or not practical for average site owners. Knowing how a Hollywood studio creates buzz for a movie is interesting, but can that be applied in Peoria? Maybe. Maybe not. Worse yet, the proponents of these "new" strategies often seem to discredit or disrespect the tired and true methods of establishing link popularity as "old fashioned" or ineffective, in the face of considerable evidence to the contrary. Even when such timeless methods may provide their client with a much better ROI and actually be more effective. A couple of years back, one big name SEO consultant at a large SEO conference publicly declared reciprocal linking dead, then proceeded to tell the audience that the way to get links was to develop software downloads that people would pass around and use. Spot on. Now, how do I do that? That part of the discussion, and the cost, seemed to get overlooked. But that seminar was cited in a lot of places as one of the latest trends in SEO. This was before the term link bait came into play. Certainly, link baiting and social networking concepts have a legitimate place in the web marketing realm. There are instances where it works very well. It's just that those instances can be very specific in scope and structure, and they do not apply to the vast majority of sites in ways that are meaningful. I see many instances of business owners who are fascinated with the SEO concept of "link quality", to the point that they will spend hours analyzing the links to their sites, while declining link opportunities that are quite legitimate and relevant, simply because some arbitrary standard of "quality" had not been met that some SEO advisor told them to use. The time invested in this link review could probably be much better spent promoting their core business, as opposed to satisfying some misguided SEO guru's concept of a "quality link". A good SEO consultant does not propose fads to their clients. They should review the circumstances in front of them, and advise strategies that look first at the ROI aspects of each and every decision, and thus, maximize the client's bang for the buck every step of the way. Best regards, Dirk Johnson, Partner - Operations DomainDrivers LLC www.domaindrivers.com www.linkstrategy.com -------- new post - new topic -------- From: Al Toman Subject: Google Checkout Thanks to both, Bob Gladstein and Jon Langley for your Google [Checkout] help. Again, I'm not a marketer, hence, I need to rely on solid marketing data. My primary concern with the checkout is, 'ease of use by customer'. I've read too many articles (and have experienced a few, myself) regarding checkouts that virtually kill the sale (I've opted out on a few, myself and went elsewhere). I've used PayPal a bit but have heard feedback from a few that 'they' couldn't use PayPal easily. My acid test is typically, if 96 year old granny can do it, then most anyone can do it... is why I ask about Google's use-a-bility. My secondary concern is cost. Four years ago I checked into Bank of America's operating procedures. Firstly, I had to locate a front-end shop cart that was compatible with BOA's backend. I found a nice simple one out of Hawaii for $150 (at the time). Secondly, BOA wanted $ upfront, downfront, upside, downside, upback, and downback. And, if I sneezed, WATCHOUT~! That is, their 'charges' were totally unexceptable (Granny gave the thumbs down on that). Hence, PayPal. I can create my own shop-cart and include PayPal's requirements nicely, thank you. As well, to respond to Tim Klimasewski question, PayPal works for software download distribtution. I can use this feature and personally called PayPal after I emailed them a couple of months ago. The email response was, no-way, no-how. Hence, the person-to-person call. The tech guy, on the otherhand, was quite helpful. In creating your BUY NOW button, do not encrypt it. Rather, hit the "Add More Options" button, scroll down, and designate a "Successful Payment Url". In this case, the 'secure' download page. That's it. Al Toman studio9 web design http://studio9.ws -------- new post - new topic -------- From: Brett Atkin Subject: Usability and search I'm sorry to be late to the party on this one, I've been behind on my reading, but I must disagree with Shari Thurow's statements concerning SEO and marketing [see "Usability and Search," issue 2261: http://www.led-digest.com/content/view/1128/55/ ]. ------------------ "Search engine optimization's primary goal is NOT marketing, though many people new to the information retrieval arena honestly believe this. And this just proves that SEOs and search engine advertisers really have a limited understanding of usability. Contrary to popular belief, at the core of usability is providing an interface that benefits both users and business owners, balancing user goals and business goals. Usability isn't only about meeting user goals. "If the only focus for SEO and search engine advertising (for the record, search engine advertising is a subset of search engine marketing) is business goals, or as Holley labeled it "marketing", I would say that he and anyone else who shares his belief has a limited knowledge of search optimization. I really don't care that the majority of SEOs do not share my opinion. I am very good at what I do." ------------------ What is the primary goal of SEO? To us "ignorant" people (I agree with Rae [Deisler] and Nathan [Holley] so I must be ignorant) as you called us, I think we believe SEO is about 2 things. One, getting high rankings. Two, getting qualified traffic to a web site. Why does a business want high rankings and qualified traffic? So they can get a ROI for their time, energy and expense of SEO. Just about anything that generates awareness, leads and/or sales for business would be considered marketing. How is the goal of SEO any different than the goal for TV, radio and magazine ads? (I found the following page by visiting the link you included in your signature line of the post in question and clicking the first link that mentions SEO) On this page (http://www.grantasticdesigns.com/seoessentials.html) of your site entitle "Search engine optimization essentials", the first thing you state is: "The search engine optimization (SEO) process consists of designing, writing, and coding web pages to increase the likelihood that they will appear at the top of search engine results for targeted keyword phrases." You end the topic with: "When hiring an online marketing firm to perform a search engine optimization campaign, make sure the firm addresses all components of a search engine algorithm..." You use "marketing", "campaign" and "SEO" all in the SAME sentence. You conclude the page with: "If you have any specific questions about our search engine marketing tips...." In your breadcrumbs, you list "SEO Essential" as a subset of "Marketing". I can't find the word "usability" anywhere on the page. Your tagline says "A Full-Service Search Engine Marketing and Design Firm" If SEO isn't about marketing, why do you keep defining it that way? I found this on Bruce Clay's web site: "What is Search Engine Optimization? Search Engine Optimization (SEO) is the science of search as it relates to marketing on the web." http://www.bruceclay.com/web_rank.htm But hey, what does he know? Brett Atkin ------------------------------------------------------- The LED Digest is sponsored by pair Networks: pair.com for Hosting | pairNIC.com for Domains Copyright 1995-2006 Orange Wheel, LLC. All Rights Reserved. ----------------------------------------------------------------- "Better to write for yourself and have no public, than to write for the public and have no self." - Cyril Connolly |
