| LED Digest 1499: Catalogs, Froogle and SEO |
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================================================== The LED Digest Moderated Discussion List "Effective Online Advertising, Since 1997" ================================================== List Moderator: Published by: Adam Audette LED Digest ................................................. January 19, 2003 Issue #1499 ................................................. .....IN THIS DIGEST..... ==== CONTINUING ================= -=Froogle: Getting Listed=- ~ Don Baker "...Froogle alters the playing field for all competitors." ~ Ivan J. Jimenez "Froogle will automatically index sites it comes across." -=Search Engine Optimization (SEO)=- ~ Shari Thurow "...search engine representatives are still wary about marketers who build separate sites." ~ Joe Lachiana "...adding keywords to metatags...should be taken care of by the web site designer." -=Do's and Don'ts for Catalogs?=- ~ Dirk Johnson "...printing and mailing catalogs can increase your VOLUME of sales..." ~ Bruce Younker "Post cards do better than first class letters..." ~ John Smart "The catalog bought out the impulse shopper in me!" ==== BILLBOARD =================== -=Internet Casino Links?=- ~ Paul Harman ~ Philip Chave ===== CONTINUING ================================= From: Don Baker Subject: Froogle > Does anyone know how to get Froogle to index > your site? ... they will not index my site. They want > me to do a monthly feed... - Wanda Husick, LED 1497 We've helped a client submit a product list to Froogle. Following an initial delay in responding, Froogle set up the login info and provided instructions on submitting the product data feed. So far, not all products are showing up, which is something to work on. The other thing we've noticed is that Froogle alters the playing field for all competitors. Like Yahoo Shopping, DealTime and similar online "warehouse" stores, all site branding is eliminated (with the exception of your URL and any brand message in the product description). Any brand-related uniqueness is muted -- your products are competing against other similar / identical products purely on 1) keyword optimization 2) presentation of photo and description, and 3) price. There are a lot of identical products appearing on Froogle, obviously purchased from the same wholesalers. For such products, the only differentiator on Froogle is price (on Yahoo Shopping, there is an implied quality check in the customer-service stars awarded Yahoo Stores by customer feedback -- that differentiator is absent in Froogle). I suppose this is why Google chose the word-play on "frugal" when naming the service. IMHO, to stand out on Froogle after keyword-optimizing your product name and description, you'll have to either 1) have a competitive price, or 2) have an unusual product with little competition. I look forward to more useful discussion on Froogle in LED Digest; thanks to everyone for their contributions. Don Baker, VP, Marketing NSI Partners www.nsipartners.com don[AT]nsipartners[DOT]com ------- new post - same topic ------- From: Ivan J. Jimenez Subject: Froogle Hi Wanda, Froogle will automatically index sites it comes across. Enter your web address to check if you've already been indexed. Whether your site was indexed or not, I'd do a feed just to ensure that all the information and images are correct and to your approval. A few digests ago, a fellow LED'er offered a very resourceful tool for submitting feeds quickly and easily. Hopefully he'll read this post and re-offer. [that free resource was Will Bontrager's: willmaster.com/master/generator/frooglefile/frooglefile.shtml. Hope this helps. -adam] All the best, Ivan J. Jimenez cosmicbreath.com ------- new post - new topic ------- From: Shari Thurow Subject: Separate sites for SEO Hi all-- With respect to Adam Dorfman's advice in LED 1498, in which he stated: > ... none of these sites are "doorway web sites" > or utilize cloaking. They contain relevant and > specific content based on each location. This can be a viable means of search engine marketing as long as each site contains quality, unique content from the perspective of end users and search engine / directory representatives, not the perspective of the search engine marketer. I address this very topic in great detail in my book, Search Engine Visibility. One way to determine if a multiple sites are a good idea is to use the directory hierarchies. Go into Yahoo, LookSmart, Open Directory, Business.com, etc. Look at the categories. If you find that the subdomain or site that you are proposing to build would be placed in a category branch different from your main one, then a separate site might be warranted. That research requires a bit of time and effort. So be sure to do that, or hire a professional to do that, before embarking on that strategy. What bothers me about the post was this statement: > ... we developed these sites purely as a > marketing tool, not to celebrate each location. > These sites did not exist until we suggested > this strategy to them. That's where businesses can get into trouble. The search engines themselves state that if you are building sites or utilizing a technique purely to boost search engine visibility, then you are probably spamming. Here are links to the articles in which the search engine reps stated this: http://www.highrankings.com/issue028.htm http://www.searchenginewatch.com/searchday/02/sd0115-spam-police.html I am finishing up an article about spam from the last Search Engine Strategies conference, held in Dallas in December. The search engine representatives are still wary about search engine marketers who build separate sites. Therefore, for those of you who wish to use multiple sites as a strategy, please be aware of the risks involved in utilizing that strategy. Take care, Shari Thurow, Webmaster/Marketing Director ~ Search Engine Visibility book now available http://www.searchenginesbook.com/ ------- new post - same topic ------- From: Joe Lachiana Subject: SEO (In the case of the wine seller, Fabien Faceries, LED 1497) Optimizing your site is definitely a big yes BUT using only internet advertising is a big no. People, adding keywords to metatags and coming up with a title for your site should be taken care of by the web site designer. This is not something you should be wasting too much additional money on. An ad in a whine magazine is SO much better of an idea. If you do a search of "wine" in Google there are 14 million responses. Yeah let's pay to be in that mess. It's like signing up for a lottery. Maybe someone will pick you out of the 14 million. Even if it was 1 out of 300,000 (keyword "wine sellers"). Sounds like a good deal. People look at what's going on. You are buying into the demise of the internet. If you do advertise on the net find the sites that you'd do business with and set up an ad on their sites. Then the wine magazines that you read the most, run a few ads in there. Make a reference in your paper ad to your availability on so and so's web site and on the web site say you can be seen in Wine-O magazine. This, to me, looks like you took some time and effort instead of having some foolish pop-up on the most random of sites. Joe Lachiana Arnoldcalls.com ------- new post - new topic ------- From: Dirk Johnson Subject: Catalogs > Many customers have requested a catalog... My > question is: Are there any absolute do's and don'ts > for a catalog? As we are strictly online, this is a > different outlet for us... - Yuwanda Black, Daily 1492 Yuwanda, as someone who operated an active hobby-related mail order business for 13 years and was one of the first in my industry to offer secure online ordering with a website (early 1997), please let me give you some insight. Yes, printing and mailing catalogs can increase your VOLUME of sales, as some have pointed out correctly. What I have not seen yet is a discussion of what effect this will have on your business. Please consider the TOTAL additional cost: - Catalogs require separate graphics / layout work. Lots of it. - Chances are, the catalog layout will not integrate with your product database, so now you are required to update data in at least two places every time items are added, deleted, or changed. This can require a controlled process unto itself. - Web images are usually 72 dpi. Print images are best when at least 150 dpi. So, you may now have separate images for each item. - Have you priced the production cost of a catalog? This includes the film work necessary to print it. Plus, you will waste some. Maybe a lot, if prices change, and you'll have to throw them away. - The catalog business requires substantial "working capital". Mostly, you pay up front for results that come later, because the process from conception to customer orders takes a remarkably long time, unless you are very, very organized. This could easily run into the thousands of dollars, even for a modest program. - Do you have a means to physically manage the catalogs, or will you "outsource" the delivery through a fulfillment house? Several thousand catalogs can require pallet delivery, or, alternatively, a awful lot of lifting. - If you outsource delivery, be prepared to pay a lot more than you'd expect. - If you manage delivery in house, to do it efficiently, you'll likely need additional equipment (labelers, tabbers, USPS-compliant mailing software), as well as a good knowledge of USPS standard mail requirements for pre-sorted mail. And a good, strong back, because it is going to get a workout. Paper is very heavy. - Know all of your costs, exactly. On a "per customer" basis, it will most likely be brutally high, compared to your web costs per customer. - Know your order processing costs of mail order. Unfortunately, even though your website address might be on every page, people will still send orders via mail, or worse yet, call them in on an 800 number. An 800 number order can easily cost several dollars worth of employee phone time, on your dime, to boot. Unlike web orders, everything must now be transcribed into a system that your fulfillment process can handle. You must open the envelopes, arrange the materials, log the payment, re-type the customer info, re-type the order info, and queue it for processing. This sounds easy. It's not. It is drudgery work, and prone to error. With web orders, all of this is already done. - If you "train" your customers to expect a catalog, you must now be prepared to maybe send a new catalog with every order. This may or may not add considerably to your postage costs. Those are just a few of the considerations. Yes, chances are, you will increase your sales. You may also find out that you are losing money on every sale. At the very least, your net profit margins on a catalog sale are, in most cases, much, much smaller than on a web sale. What's more, you'll have also added an enormous amount of work to your management load. Catalog preparation, bidding, production coordination, delivery and storage logistics, USPS mail compliance, order entry assistance, and more. This work WILL take you away from product development and other high value tasks. I am not saying what is the right or wrong thing to do. That is rightfully for you to decide. If you make more money as a result, then that may be the overriding goal here. I am just offering some insight that you cannot possibly realize unless you've been there and done it. Be very aware that adding a printed catalog component to your business will change not only your cost structure, but also your daily routine, dramatically. Thanks Dirk Johnson, Author "Turn Your Hobby Into A Money-Making Website! - What Works & Why" http://www.roiwebsites.com/hobbysite djohnson[AT]roiwebsites[DOT]com ------- new post - same topic ------- From: Bruce Younker Subject: Catalogs People want the catalog because as you suggested, my catalog includes several hundred products spread over five or six classifications and it is just easier for them to use and then they have it in front of them when they phone in their order, and in my case, most of the day, till 8 pm, they get to talk to a real live person. It is spelled out to them clearly that if they shop through the site there is little or no order handling freight charge involved, which does happen to be substantial when phoned or mailed in. I would say that very few percent of my customers order through the site, though they do communicate with me through it. This number is growing but as I understand it, it is only about two or three percent of the market comfortable with e-commerce at this time and unless what you are selling really appeals to that small group so that you can get a large percentage of what is there, the catalog is going to be around for a long time. I confess that when buying products that I see on the web, and can be ordered thereon, most of the time I phone in the order if possible, and if not, I just don't complete the purchase. Too, I have found that the best way to promote my website is to pick a few zip codes each month that fit the demographics wanted and tell the folks about the site via snail mail post cards. Post cards do better than first class letters, as it is hard not to read a post card; it arrives open. Bruce Younker bruce[AT]aiagrp[DOT]net ------- new post - same topic ------- From: John Smart Subject: Catalogs The argument of "not sending a CD catalog that links into the web page because if they can see the web page they don't need the CD" does have one flaw. If I find a web page that I like, I bookmark it. If I am using the same computer, and haven't lost my bookmarks, and remember I have a bookmark I will go back to the same store. If not, then I start to search over. If I have a nice, shiny CD sitting somewhere on my desktop, showing me that the company who wants me to spend money with them is prepared to invest a little on me, I am much more likely to go back there. Another advantage to catalog advert A case in point -- I get my computer hardware (usually) from one of two suppliers. The one is usually cheaper, but the other one sends me catalogs every other month. When I know I want something, I go to the cheaper one. But the catalog shows me stuff that I didn't even know I wanted! Did you know that you can get a keyring / USB thing that holds 128 meg of data for $20? I didn't! Not till I got that catalog! I would never have searched online for that, so I would have only seen it had I been shopping. The catalog bought out the impulse shopper in me! John Smart, Technical Director InternetDesign.com - A Human Touch in a Digital World (TM) ==== BILLBOARD ==================================== From: Paul Harman Subject: Casino links > ... I have a links page for increasing traffic and > building link popularity... What's the overall opinion > on internet casinos, are they widely accepted or > should you stay away from them? - Toon Eppink, LED 1495 Hi Toon, I don't know if the gambling links will hurt your site, but I do know it will not help it. I get pop-ups for gambling sites all the time, 9 or 10 times a day. I don't hold them against the site using them, but I also do not respond to them. They are a minor irritation. I don't think you will make any money. If someone is on your site looking at you have to offer how likely is it that they will want to click on a pop-up to claim their $500 of free money. Pop-ups are like mosquitoes, you slap them & they go away. Paul Harman ------- new post - same topic ------- From: Philip Chave Subject: Casino links Hi Toon Yes, you do have a visually pleasing site. Pity to spoil it, don't you think? I assume the aim is to raise a little additional income from your site? A quick search on Google for, 'kitchenware affiliate programs' produced this link: http://www.associateprograms.com/search/Food_and_Drink/recipes/ and four and a half thousand others, all to do with food, kitchenware, speciality foods, gifts, recipes, tableware, home and garden, patio items and everything else to do with the subject of your site. Other searches using your site keywords or phrases will give you other options much more suited to your theme. Once you establish yourself as the expert on kitchen cutlery, your target audience will also trust you to recommend to them other related products... if you stay on topic. I'm sure you get the gist of this without me rambling on any more. Good Luck! Philip Chave Antique Collector http://www.antiquecollector.uk.com ----------------------------------------------------------------- Copyright 1995-2003 Adam Audette. All Rights Reserved. "Be careful of reading health books, you might die of a misprint." -- Mark Twain |
