| LED Digest 1509: Yahoo Submission Worthwhile? |
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================================================== The LED Digest Moderated Discussion List "Effective Online Advertising, Since 1997" ================================================== List Moderator: Published by: Adam Audette LED Digest ................................................. February 3, 2003 Issue #1509 ................................................. .....IN THIS DIGEST..... ===== NEW ======================= --== Google Toobar ==-- ~ Lorelle Smith "It's gotta be the Toolbar that's reporting back to Google." ==== CONTINUING ================= --== File Names Affecting Rankings? ==-- ~ Margaret Chiffriller "...it's a combo of factors that tip [SE's] off as to the relevance of any specific page." --== Darwin and the World Wide Web ==-- ~ Ed Coffin "Two 'professional' design shops wanted payment in excess of a year's gross income..." ~ Roland Matzke "...we sometimes get calls asking for a quote for a complete web site over the phone." ===== GEEK TIPS ================== --== Site Search ==-- ~ Mark Brownlow ~ Mike Banks Valentine ==== BILLBOARD =================== --== Yahoo & Inktomi ==-- ~ John Richardson --== Google's SEO Selection Tips ==-- ~ Mike Jacobs ===== NEW ======================================= From: Lorelle Smith Subject: New Topic - Google Toolbar (was File names) > As for pages linking to this one - until just > a few days ago there were none. - John Smart, LED 1508 I and many of my clients & colleagues have been seeing brand-new sites (still under construction) mysteriously wind up in Google despite the fact that they were not submitted to any search engine and no site links to them. One colleague surmised that Google might be finding these brand-new sites in domain registrations, but I seriously doubt they would go to that trouble. Recently, a "typo" domain I registered (to allow people to find my site even if they misspell it) temporarily got into the Google database. Now, Google doesn't ordinarily index identical sites or single sites under multiple names, and I never submitted the site under either its main domain OR the typo version. It's not even hosted. I just have a simple redirect from the domain registrar. I think the answer is diabolically simple, and I'm surprised no one has ever mentioned this. It's gotta be the Google Toolbar that's reporting back to Google. See Google's privacy page at http://toolbar.google.com/privacy.html: ----------------- "... if you choose to enable the Google Toolbar's advanced features (e.g., viewing the PageRank of web pages), the URLs of the sites you visit will automatically be forwarded to Google... Google may collect information about web pages that you are viewing when the advanced functionality is enabled." ----------------- I discovered that a friend who is always misspelling my domain (in fact that's how I got the idea to register the typo version) DOES have the advanced Google Toolbar installed, and DID visit my site. I think that's the most proof I'll ever have of this theory. Oh, and lest anyone get the wrong idea, Google is not referring to what's typed into the search box of the Toolbar, but the address bar of your BROWSER. (If it were anyone but Google, I might be concerned with their motives.) So if you're working on a site that's either private or not ready for prime time, don't let anyone visit it with the Google Toolbar installed! And don't forget to set up a temporary robots.txt file right from the start. For those folks that need to know, here's how: Just create a plain text file with these 2 lines: User-agent: * Disallow: / Name it robots.txt and upload it to the main area of your website (it must be in the root directory where the home page resides). Lorelle Smith, the "smith" and the "pro" in Websmith Pro Internet Services http://www.keywordsmith.com ===== CONTINUING ================================= From: Margaret Chiffriller Subject: File names > The bland page title does indeed say "Limewash" - that > dilutes the observation somewhat (although it does show > the importance of either folder names OR page titles!) - John Smart, LED 1508 Hi, The search engines are in business, too. The product that they have to deliver is the service of giving their customers the most relevant sites in response to a search. My observation has been that it's a combo of factors that tip them off as to the relevance of any specific page. This seems to be the case here. You use limewash in the title and then bring it home with the repeated use of the word on the page (in the filename). Since there isn't much of anything else on the page the limewash relevance is really high. It would be even more so had you added the ALT tags and a description including only limewash. Through the roof if you had other limewash relevant sites linking to you. The only problem is that unless someone is searching specifically for limewash - not lime wash or limewash company, etc. - you don't rate quite as high. I know this was a fluke and not something you had planned, but generally, you wouldn't want a page that only caught one search term and no variations. Margaret Chiffriller Web Design By Chiff http://www.chiff.com/ ------- new post - new topic ------- From: Ed Coffin Subject: Darwin > ... though there are lots of people who claim > to have web building businesses, they just > don't seem to be interested in handling the > small business owner - Vicki Lambert, LED 1506 I don't disagree with any of the salient posts on small business finding an affordable site development partner. TXM began as a clearly home-made do it yourself web presence, using the billboard and industry niche news publication aspect to draw attention, show regulatory and advisory prowess, and gain or hang onto retainers from primary suppliers in a few niche industries. Worked fine... six figure profits in a little over a year. Had to keep up with a more professional image, plus add scoped professional training (certification level) so fewer people in more places could handle the increased workload. Horrible result. Two 'professional' design shops wanted payment in excess of a year's gross income just to scope out and design, never mind implement. Found a good partner, still way too much money, but contracted and set out to implement after design approval. Then 9-11 caused the industry (airline) and its technology suppliers to wholly crater, and terminate all outside services. The content isn't done (no one available to work on it), the merchant account is not installed (no way to pay for it), and even the hosting bill is much in arrears, but we're still out there thanks to that same partner foreseeing a decent restoration of business in the near term. Moral: If a very small business agrees to pay substantial amounts, both that business and its web services partner risk substantial loss. Happens when unforeseen factors stop all the cash flow. Caveat. (PS - this occurred 10/2001 - 03/2002 and the new, clean, functional, professional redesign is still not implemented... maybe soon !) Best regards, Ed Coffin TXM Have a better than expected day ! ------- new post - same topic ------- From: Roland Matzke Subject: Darwin The problem we have creating web sites for smaller enterprises is that very often they have very little content and material to give to us and expect us to invent something out of nothing, i.e. writing their company resume (sometimes I think I'm a journalist), sourcing images, etc. The smaller companies generally have no idea initially what they want, but are quick to critizise when we present a finished product. Then all of a sudden their ideas sprout. We are expected to be not only web designers, but ad agencies as well. All this costs time and money which invariably this sort of client hasn't got or is not willing to pay. Besides, the impression is that most 14 year old with an HTML editor on their home PC can whack something together for a bit of pocket money. We tread very carefully in this market, but cannot afford to be overly fussy, because our market is not nearly as large as the European and US market. By the way, we sometimes get calls asking for a quote for a complete web site over the phone. We find this a problem as there are too many options available when creating a site and would prefer sitting with a client to evaluate his needs. Just about impossible. We have tried giving package solutions in the past, but the end price invariably differs from the original quote, so what's the point. How does anyone else handle this situation? It's not as if we are selling TV sets. Are you able to give quotes over the phone with the caller giving vague specs like "What's a 10 page web site cost?" ? Comments welcome! Roland Matzke Web Connect CC ===== GEEK TIPS =================================== From: Mark Brownlow Subject: Site search > I have been trying to find a good site search > engine for a large web site... Does anyone > have any suggestions? - Niki Mcelroy, LED 1508 I'm perfectly happy with the free service from Atomz, which I found easy to implement (you just add some form code to your pages) and manage. Their customer service was also very responsive (and I'm a non-paying customer). You can build a template for them to use when returning results, so it looks fully integrated with your site. http://www.atomz.com/search/trial_account.htm I've also spoken with a large e-commerce site that was very happy with their for-fee version, too. Tip 1: The search results (for the free version at least) are presented from the Atomz site. So in your template, all your internal links need to be absolute, rather than relative, i.e. http://www.mysite.com/contact.htm rather than contact.htm . Otherwise they don't work. Tip 2: Hey web-based services out there - see how being nice to non-paying customers can also bring a financial benefit. Look at the free promotion Atomz just got out of me :-) Mark Brownlow Find permission email marketing resources http://www.email-marketing-reports.com/ ------- new post - same topic ------- From: Mike Banks Valentine Subject: Site search Niki, Here's a great article by search engine expert Robin Nobles of Search Engine Workshop fame, titled 'Congratulations! You've Gotten the Visitors to your Site? ... now, can they find what they're looking for?' which discusses freefind and five different on-site search options, as well as offering links to additional tools. http://searchengineoptimism.com/seo_tutorial/on_site_search.html I use freefind on my site of nearly 600 pages and a couple of client sites as well and love the service. Freefind crawls once a week and sends you a notice as well as sending a report on what visitors have searched for while there. I learned about them through Robin's article. http://www.freefind.com/ Up until then I had been using the WhatUseek intrasearch, but switched because I couldn't integrate the results page with my site design effectively. Mike Banks Valentine http://searchengineoptimism.com ==== BILLBOARD ==================================== From: John Richardson Subject: Yahoo! and Inktomi Hi Everyone, I know this topic may have been covered before but I am about to launch a new website and could use some feedback. A couple years ago we paid for inclusion in the Yahoo! Directory. We had very good placement and traffic from Yahoo! and were very pleased with the investment. However, now if I go to www.yahoo.com and type in our search phrase, I get some paid "Sponsor Matches" (from Overture) and then "Web Matches". Obviously since our listing is in the directory it does not show up. A user would have to click the "Directory" link at the top of the page before our listing would show up. If I do this, we are #2 in the "Directory Site Matches". The ability to choose the "Directory" search is not available from the initial search from www.yahoo.com. My question is: Since the Yahoo! directory is now essentially hidden from the casual searcher, is paying the annual fee for the Yahoo! Express Directory submission worth it anymore? Also, where are the "Web Matches" coming from? In light of the recent acquisition of Inktomi by Yahoo!, is it safe to bet that the "Web Matches" will be coming from the Inktomi database? If so, would paid inclusion with Inktomi now be a better investment than the Yahoo! Express Directory submission? Thanks - John Richardson JR Capital Management ------- new post - new topic ------- From: Mike Jacobs Subject: Google SEO Selection Tips Google put out a page with some good advice for selecting (and rejecting) Seach Engine Optimization professionals. http://www.google.com/webmasters/seo.html Any good SEO would prefer their clients be informed. Mike Jacobs www.webmogul.com ------------------------------------------------------- Copyright 1995-2003 Adam Audette. All Rights Reserved. ----------------------------------------------------------------- "Yes, we love peace, but we are not willing to take wounds for it, as we are for war." - John Andrew Holmes |
