| LED Digest 2321: Begging Links & Yahoo! Slurping |
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================================================== The LED Digest Moderated Discussion List "Effective Online Advertising, Since 1997" Data > Information > Knowledge > Wisdom pair Networks: The LED's Web Host Hosting and Domain Registration from a Trusted Leader pair.com for Hosting | pairNIC.com for Domains ================================================== List Moderator: Published by: Adam Audette LED Digest adam, led-digest.com http://www.led-digest.com .............................................. January 9, 2007 Issue no. 2321 .............................................. .....IN THIS DIGEST..... ===== NEW ======================= ---== What is Yahoo! Slurp Doing? ==-- ~ Will Bontrager "...the crawler now tries to get information by sending a query string with the request." ==== CONTINUING ================= --== An SEO Guide - is it Possible? ==-- ~ Aaron Wall "...share all your tricks and secrets and all you do is push yourself toward becoming a commodity." --== Linking Requests ==-- ~ Barry S Mills "...links that are invisible to the naked eye contravene the acceptable use policy of all the search engines..." ~ Shari Thurow "Your colleague needs some serious education about SEO." ~ Sandi Dettman "...not all SEO firms use ethical and proven optimization techniques..." ~ Michael Linehan "A site can be banned from a search engine for an 'offense' much less serious..." ~ Steve Pronger "When it comes to SEO there's nothing new under the sun." --== Even More Form Spam ==-- ~ Lew Vividere "My server is sending spam - help needed..." ========== NEW =================================== From: Will Bontrager Subject: What is Yahoo! doing? Off and on, during the past week, I've been tweaking a little script to temporarily block the IP addresses of rogue spiders and crawlers. You know, the ones that sniff for FrontPage security holes and crawl pages disallowed by robots.txt and poke their noses where they have no sniffing business. As I'm looking through the logs, I notice Yahoo! Slurp trying to get directory lists of files. (It can't, such listings are blocked.) The directory names are not disallowed in robots.txt, so trying to get file lists is quite okay. But when I started seeing requests with URI /directoryname/?N=D I felt a little uneasy. The query string varies -- ?D=D, ?M=A, ?S=A -- sometimes the same directory queried with different query strings spaced over several days. It occurred to me the user-agent string might be spoofed, When I did an IP whois lookup on several of the IP addresses, they resolved to Inktomi Corporation and yahoo.com name servers. Maybe I'm wrong about this, but it appears that, being unable to obtain directory file lists, the crawler now tries to get information by sending a query string with the request. It seems somewhat underhanded to me. Any LEDers who know or can make an educated guess about what Yahoo! Slurp is doing, please speak up. And thank you. Will Bontrager http://bontragercgi.com/ ======== CONTINUING =============================== From: Aaron Wall Subject: SEO guide Hi Adam I think the idea of creating an SEO guide becomes unbearable only if you think you have to answer every possible question and cover every detail in every case. And at that point we are writing so much that it is outdated and most of it doesn't apply to most people. I think it is far more important to understand general trends and give tips that can be applied in various means. If this works for you then do it. If not skip it and apply whatever else fits your needs. Grab the low hanging fruit first and then reinvest those profits into improving your business in other ways. Shaun Johnston stated [issue 2320 http://www.led-digest.com/content/view/1696/55/ ] > Real professional SEO work is to me the most unpleasant > job I can concieve of, worse than actuarial research in an > insurance company. Are we, in fact, working with a set of > tools bound to induce a sense of failure? Can one conceive > of a better set, that even creatives could enjoy using? I think you can get a quick overview of a marketplace rather quickly for free by using something like Jim Boykin's top 10 analysis tool http://www.webuildpages.com/cool-seo-tool/ or something like my SEO for Firefox extension http://tools.seobook.com/firefox/seo-for-firefox.html If you are trying to create something sustainable for organic SEO I don't think it helps to look at exact numbers and try to exactly hit any specific number, just survey the market and trends, and then do what you can to beat the competition. If you track the news better and know your market better than the competition and create and share more value than the competition then eventually the search results will show that. I think I was able to cover many of the most important points of SEO in 4 pages on a recent Work.com article http://www.work.com/learning-search-engine-optimization-1053/ DomainDrivers stated > There are some big name SEO experts who claim > to have magic formula ranking recipes that simply > rely on a "few good links". But they won't ever tell > you exactly where to get them, or the cost. And the reason that you won't get told exactly where to do exactly what works at a set price is many fold: - every market is unique - we all know markets shift - if there is an exact known cheap formula and it is exactly shared we reduce our work to the value of commodity workers in 3rd world countries, who we soon will be competing with... as an example, I have had offers for some of my high ranking domains from people who I was almost certain were low waged and in third world countries - how can we justify charging our clients some rate for our work then sharing everything we did together with all their competitors? - the whole reason many techniques work is that few people use or abuse them relative to how often they occur as natural parts of the web. share all your tricks and secrets and all you do is push yourself toward becoming a commodity. - the whole reason reciprocal links diminished in value and effectiveness because the technique has been abused and is generally associated with low information quality - any real website with a real brand should have some intrinsic value associated with it that is not easy for competitors to duplicate - you can push frameworks of thinking and observed general algorithmic trends, but there is never a point in giving exact details of everything you do on one specific site unless your goal is to get media coverage for your own brand and/or that site and use THAT as a competitive advantage. cheers, aaron wall blog http://www.seobook.com/ consulting http://www.clientsidesem.com/ -------- new post - new topic -------- From: Barry Mills Subject: Linking requests > I have recently received a request from a colleague and > it made me very uncomfortable... it made me think he is > working with some less than ethical SEO companies... > How would you suggest that I respond to this individual? - Mark Bishop, LED Digest 2320 - http://www.led-digest.com/content/view/1696/55/ Mark, you are absolutely right to be uncomfortable. Your colleage has either misunderstood or been seriously misinformed. You certainly shouldn't join the scheme, and if he's a friend of yours then I think you should advise him to get out of it himself. If the links are invisible to the naked eye, then the only way they could possible boost traffic is by helping search engine rankings. But links that are invisible to the naked eye contravene the acceptable use policy of all the search engines I can think of (and so they should). So while there may be a little short term gain (not likely, and not much of a gain in my opinion), it is a practice that is highly likely to result in sites getting penalised by, or banned from, search engines, and can only damage their traffic in the medium term. Barry S Mills, Managing Director Netstep Corporate Communications http://www.netstep.co.uk -------- new post - same topic -------- From: Shari Thurow Subject: Linking requests Hi all- This is in response to Mark Bishop's post in LED #2330 regarding a link request. My main concern is quite simple, and I am quoting: > ...it would be invisible to the naked eye > but would help us both out. Okay, if it is invisible to the naked eye, why must it be so? If the link is supposed to be beneficial, then why must it be hidden? The link must be beneficial to not only the Web sites doing the link exchange, it needs to be beneficial to all end users of both sites as well. If you are hiding something from end users but not search engines, then it is probably search engine spam. Hidden links is a form of search engine spam. Another concern: > You are not endorsing any type of partnership with or even > any product or service of XXXXXX XXXXXXXX.... Well, there's this thing called relevancy in the search engines, and a link that does not pertain to the topic(s) on your Web site is just going to look odd. Perhaps that is why the graphic artist feels the need to hide this link from end users. Web sites are penalized for the sites that they link to. If you knowingly link to Web sites that practice search engine spam (which is what your colleague described), then it would be your own fault if your site were penalized. I see it happen all of the time. My advice? Your colleague needs some serious education about SEO. Is he desperate for search engine traffic? Maybe that is the source of the problem. On another note from another thread, I don't think an SEO guide is possible. What I just described as spam is perfectly acceptable to other SEO firms. Their guide would contain considerably different content than my guide. Heck, it was really easy for me to write the search engine spam chapter of my book (1st and forthcoming 2nd edition). Basically, I took other SEO books and told people to not do what they recommended. Goes to show that even if you work at these huge SEO firms, you might not necessarily give the best SEO advice. Oh yeah, search engine reps really liked that chapter. So I know what I wrote was valid. Sincerely, Shari Thurow, Webmaster/Marketing Director Grantastic Designs, Inc. http://www.grantasticdesigns.com/tips.html -------- new post - same topic -------- From: Sandi Dettman Subject: Linking requests Hi Mark, I would think that this colleague is probably ignorant (of the problems which can arise from an unethical SEO using unethical techniques like you mentioned) and even if he isn't, I would recommend replying to his request as if he was so as not to offend him. I would let him know that while reciprocal linking can possibly be beneficial to both your sites, this technique would certainly be recognized as spam at some point in time, and that it could cause both your sites to be penalized. I would tell him that not all SEO firms use ethical and proven optimization techniques and unfortunately, the burden lies on him to be educated enough to know the difference between a reputable SEO and one which isn't. I would even suggest that he read some of the responses to your LED posting and join the LED Digest himself. I applaud your desire to respond and help educate your colleague rather than just send his inquiry to your delete items bin! If more people had your attitude, the word would spread and unethical SEO's would be out of tricks and a job! Good Luck Sandi Dettman www.artistgifts.com -------- new post - same topic -------- From: Michael Linehan Subject: Linking requests Hello Mark, You'll probably get a few contributions that you can synthesize. My part is..... A site can be banned from a search engine for an 'offense' much less serious than the suggested tactic of inserting invisible links. This route smacks of "let's see how quickly I can destroy my site". A good principle is that if it's a trick, or even remotely seems like a trick, do NOT do it. And using invisible links most definitely qualifies as a trick. I've read and liked this way to express it, "If you wouldn't do it with the heads of the search engines looking over your shoulder, then don't do it." I'm not sure your friend is working with a "less than ethical" SEO company. It's seems more likely that he is simply working with people who don't know what they are doing. But whichever it is, I think, despite the frequent success around us of scammers and scum, that a reputable, successful business is most effectively built by being clean. Michael Linehan Marketing Alchemy www.marketing-alchemy.com -------- new post - same topic -------- From: Steve Pronger Subject: Linking requests Mark, You are right to feel uncomfortable with this request. Unfortunately it was made by someone who thinks they know SEO from what they have read, rather than real-world experience. Warning bells should be ringing loud and clear. Danger, Will Robinson... To avoid being "pedantic" with your colleague, simply send him a copy of my words below, along with any other responses from fellow LEDers: Dear Colleague of Mark, Putting links that are "hidden to the naked eye" is inadvisable. Such links are frowned on by search engines, and when discovered - and they WILL be discovered - will likely result in the search engines permanently removing the sites in question from their search results. Obviously, this will not benefit anyone. And if the links are invisible to human visitors, it will not benefit them either. Moreover, such techniques are not necessary. By all means link to relevant sites, and seek links from them. But by doing so you are in fact endorsing them and should be quite happy to do so. If you're not happy, then don't link. Visible links to and from related, recommended sites will send traffic to and from both sites, which will benefit both sites, aside from any search engine ranking benefits. Search engines are quite sophisticated these days and far from stupid. When it comes to SEO there's nothing new under the sun. They've seen it all. Work with them and not against them. Do you like being deceived? Neither do search engines. Common sense really. Steve Pronger http://www.stevepronger.com -------- new post - new topic -------- From: Lew Vividere Subject: My server is sending spam - help needed I have received six messages from the abuse department where my server is hosted saying they had gotten complaints about receiving spam from my server. They said they had received 229 complaints but only sent me six notices. My server was "hardened" by a well respected firm to plug the typical holes. The server host though I should change some lines in my etc/mail/access file: localhost.localdomain RELAY localhost RELAY 127.0.0.1 RELAY They wanted me to change those to "reject" but was told that will also prevent some legit system generated mails from being sent. Others I have asked don't think those lines have anything to do with the spam and suspect it is a bad PHP script such as Formmail or PHPBB. I thought the most recent Formmail with the proper restrictions didn't allow spamming? I don't know about other PHP scripts myself or my users might be using. I did notice that all six spam samples I was sent were from the same domain, a domain belonging to a client. I wasn't able to find a PHP script on the pages I was able to find on his domain. Is there a help file or instructions somewhere on locating what script could be the culprit? I was give some links to some additional "hardening" type of processes to perform but I am always worried about breaking something while fixing something else. http://www.securityfocus.com/infocus/1706 That one was written back in 2003 so I don't know how applicable the advice is? I was also given this link: http://blogs.pathf.com/highperf/2006/05/php_spam_inject.html Here again, I don't know if these suggestions will work for me and instead would rather seek out the errant script / domain and tackle it that way. Any suggestions? Thanks! Lew Vividere ------------------------------------------------------- The LED Digest is sponsored by pair Networks: pair.com for Hosting | pairNIC.com for Domains The Archives: http://www.led-digest.com/content/view/126/120/ Subscribe: http://www.led-digest.com/content/view/52/77/ Unsubscribe, Change Email, or Hold / Resume Delivery: http://www.led-digest.com/content/category/4/17/86/ (c) Copyright 1995-2007 Orange Wheel, LLC. 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