| LED Digest 2327: Incoming Links from Virtual Domains |
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================================================== The LED Digest Moderated Discussion List "Effective Online Advertising, Since 1997" Data > Information > Knowledge > Wisdom pair Networks: The LED's Web Host Hosting and Domain Registration from a Trusted Leader pair.com for Hosting | pairNIC.com for Domains ================================================== List Moderator: Published by: Adam Audette LED Digest adam, led-digest.com http://www.led-digest.com .............................................. January 17, 2007 Issue no. 2327 .............................................. .....IN THIS DIGEST..... ====== NEW ====================== <Moderator Comment> --== Incoming Links from Virtual Domains ==-- ~ Dave Roberts "[A client has] a lot of incoming links that come from sites that all have the same IP address!" ==== CONTINUING ================= --== Saving Design Costs ==-- ~ Beth Earle "And what a good reminder for all of us." ~ Dave Mead "One approach I have taken...is having the time line printed out beforehand." ~ Jim Gatton "How to get the site design you want when you don't know what you want?" ~ Peggy Deras "It may help to look at how other industries in the design business do it." --== An SEO Guide - is it Possible? ==-- ~ Michael Martinez "[An] LED marketing survey...could prove to be extremely useful..." ~ Donald Nelson "There seem to be two issues going on in this particular discussion." ========== NEW =================================== <Moderator Comment> I've received a few emails this week asking, "where's my post?" There's been a backlog in my inbox, it's starting to clear though and I should get current over the next few days. Thanks for your patience with that. Hope business is good! Adam --------------------- From: Dave Roberts Subject: Incoming Links from Multiple Sites at Same IP Address I was checking incoming links for one of my Web marketing clients, and I noticed that his Webmaster (who likes to think of himself as an SEO wizard) had obtained a lot of incoming links that come from sites that all have the same IP address! Does anyone think that this could cause problems from Google? They have distinct URLs. The PRs of the sites for these incoming links range from 0 (most of them) to 3 or 4 for maybe 1 out of ten. Thanks Dave Roberts http://www.davedoesitall.com ======== CONTINUING =============================== From: Beth Ann Earle Subject: Design costs > From the other side of the fence, it can be really frustrating > for designers when the client tries to pre-empt design decisions > and come up with their own solutions. Jeff Croft has a great > post about this that rings very true to me: > jeffcroft.com/2006/nov/13/bring-me-problems-not-solutions/ - Veronica Yuill, LED Digest 2326 - http://www.led-digest.com/content/view/1711/55/ Good read on Jeff Croft's site -- thanks for the link, Veronica! And what a good reminder for all of us. I, in fact, put it to use just now in emailing a programmer about his interest in quoting some business for us. Instead of assuming I know best for this particular project and nitpicking all the details, I just gave him the high-level overview of what we actually want to be able to do in the end and asked not only for a quote but for his advice on how to get to that point. It'll be interesting to see how this project develops and how satisfied all parties are at the end of the process. Wishing all the best to LED'ers everywhere, Beth Earle www.pilotfishseo.com -------- new post - same topic -------- From: Dave Mead Subject: Design costs Hi Shari, I have run into exactly the same problem. I've even had instances where clients insist on seeing PDFs of each page laid out before development! I think it is inherent in our profession and nothing will change that completely. One approach I have taken (which sometimes, works) is having the time line printed out beforehand. That way if the requests get to intensive we can reprint this with the launch date moved. As the client can't visualize what the page will look like without seeing an example the same seems to be true, with the launch date. It's a nice visual tool to show the before and after, physically having the block of time on paper before them can make that "trust us" conversation go a little easier. Doesn't always work, as I said, but may help. Dave Mead http://www.dmwebsites.com Web Design | SEO | Consulting -------- new post - same topic -------- From: Jim Gatton Subject: Getting the design you want... How to get the site design you want when you don't know what you want? Reading Shari Thurow's posted question regarding design clients as well as the excellent feedback coming forth as a result, brought this following and somewhat related question to mind. Not that I haven't puzzled over it for months already, rather that I'll put it into print now and hope for the best. Maybe it's the other side of the clients-drive-me-crazy coin. Some business associates viewing my website independently have commented on more than one occasion that I *really* need a better ("professional") design at loans-finder.org.uk if I'm going to succeed in this business. Okay, but that redesign also has to incorporate effective marketing techniques when interested visitors come to my site. I have no problem paying someone to design a better website (I also can buy a nice template as quickly as anyone else) but, being as inexperienced as I am, how do I even begin to explain to someone *with specifics* what I want to see when what I really want to see is simply a site design that's fundamentally effective but I wouldn't know one if I saw it? This is a PPC site with virtually no repeat visitors. I help them the first time or not at all and the site design you see today is probably #umpteen over the last year. Shari, maybe this is a tiny part of the reason why some of your clients drive you crazy? (My words. Not Shari's) Some of us really don't know what we want even after you show it to us. It may be pretty but will it sell? No one on God's green earth knows the answer to that question absolutely but we'd sure like to have the odds tilted in our favor. Back to my confusion and the confession that I am not quite a marketing expert either which makes it extremely difficult to tweak individual elements when nothing is working well on the site in the first place. What do I change? The chicken or the egg and which is chicken and which is egg? I'm a one man band and not ready to mortgage my home on a design I don't know how to evaluate objectively. And, if I don't like it I have to pay for it anyway, of course. That's fair. I have, on the other hand, poured lots of time and money into this loans-finder.org.uk project, spending money common sense would dictate I not spend, so I'm not cheap (I don't think) and I'm making lots of financial sacrifices to succeed but I really do not know how to proceed in obtaining an effective site design. I never contact a design company simply because I wouldn't know how to describe what I need except in very general terms much less recognize it as an effective design. How does one proceed when faced with so many confusing points? I've already tried giving up and quitting. I do that, oh, every couple of weeks? Then ten, maybe fifteen minutes later, I'm back refining, studying, learning, etc. Quitting is not an option as I'm too hardheaded to quit, so how do I hire a web designer that knows how to design an excellent (ok, I'll settle for good to very good) site for me? Looks professional -- Effective in encouraging people to ask for our services. Is it really just a case of you pay your money, trust the seat of your pants as things evolve then hope for the best? Jim Gatton -------- new post - same topic -------- From: Peggy Deras Subject: Re: Design Ideas vs Biz Decisions It may help to look at how other industries in the design business do it. Or, for that matter, anyone else who charges for services. I am a kitchen designer, and I learned a long time ago that clients will take as much (of my time) as I'm willing to give them. I explain the average RANGE of costs for my services on my web site, but also caution that the figures are averages and that some clients who need a lot of hand-holding (they know who they are) can incur higher charges. Thus I charge for every minute spent on a project and bill in increments of less than $1000 (I have found that anything over $1000 invites problems but I can send a bill for up to $999 every other day if I have to with no difficulty getting paid). My invoices are also due on receipt. I know when I don't receive payment forthwith to stop work until I do. Lawyers are notorious for charging for every minute. Everybody expects it and there is no complaint. There is no reason for designers to get any less respect, if we are offering something the client needs... and we obviously are. We just have to explain our charges and keep the client in the loop with timely billings to let them know when things are getting away from them. I try to bill every time I send the client something substantial. That way they have something in hand to show for their outlay. I think you are asking yourselves to do the impossible by working to a specific contract amount. You don't know at the outset what you are getting into any more than I do. Many clients, those who are well prepared and undemanding, would actually pay less were it not for fixed-price contracts. I occasionally have a client who will hamstring me like that, thinking they are saving money. All they are saving is creativity applied to their project. A quickie site design is just as bad as a quickie kitchen design. We also need to realize that every client who comes along is not necessarily "ours". Qualifying leads and sending off the ones who are not suited to our style is also part of the service. And sending them on to someone who will meet their needs can be as memorable as giving them what they came for. I also think that "remodeling" a web site is way more likely to incur additional costs for correcting work by others than starting from scratch. How can one rewrite a book without examining every word and bit of punctuation? I've been doing a lot of political stuff over the last few years and haven't had time to lurk and read. Great to be back and hope I can stay with it for a while. Thanks for the great continuing education everyone and Adam. Peggy Deras -------- new post - new topic -------- From: Michael Martinez Subject: SEO guide The diversity of opinion, experience, expertise, and perspective that LED represents makes it a very valuable resource for me in several ways. But this is not a resource for helping me study search engine optimization, except in that it acts as a sort of weather gauge the way many other marketing forums do. When a lot of people scream, I know the communal pain indicates something has changed. There is a great deal of self-promotion on this list, and that self-promotion helps depict the state of the community but not the true science (or art) of the industries that together make up the community. I agree with Shari that there are not enough people who contribute to LED discussions to provide a really useful guide to online marketing and promotion. However, Adam could probably harness the incredible untapped pool of opinion, experience, and perspective to put together one heck of a marketing survey. In fact, an annual or semi-annual LED marketing survey -- depending on what questions were asked -- could prove to be extremely useful in measuring the depth and scope of online marketing. And it just might be that people would share more information about their methodologies if assured of some anonymity through an aggregate reporting model as opposed to being asked to contribute to an anecdotal archive. What I would like to see from such a study includes: 1) A brief measurement of industry type and experience (too many surveys dwell too much on demographics) 2) A measurement of LED experience (how long subscribed, contributions, and help obtained) 3) A run-down of marketing techniques (have you tried methodology X, do you feel it benefits you, can you quantify the benefit, is it critical to your online business model, etc.) 4) A run-down of marketing tools (search engines you rely upon, directories you pay for submission to, advertising networks you rely upon, outsourcing services used, etc.) 5) A concise overview of presentation (number of Web sites used, number of verticals pursued, do you have an affiliate network, do you provide direct fulfillment or turnaround, etc.) 6) Preferred marketing resources (F.A.Q.s, eBooks, books, magazines, newsletters, tutorials, other resources you rely upon or have used to learn about online marketing, conferences attended, seminars taken, etc.) In my experience, about 9 out of every 10 study / survey proposals dies an agonizing death from too many people overburdening it with suggestions, demands, requirements, etc. We all want to learn different things. I don't know if Adam would have the time to put together such a survey. But imagine the value we could obtain from pooling what we know about ourselves and sharing that openly without disclosing vital secrets. No more self-promotion, no more arguing over what is best or ethical, no more misinterpreting intentions. Everyone who participates would speak with an equally anonymous voice. Every contribution would carry as much weight as the others. And no other resource exists (that I know of) which is equally useful and valuable or as available as I would hope an LED survey would be. Michael Martinez http://seo-theory.blogspot.com/ -------- new post - same topic -------- From: Donald Nelson Subject: SEO guide Dear All, There seem to be two issues going on in this particular discussion. 1. Who is an SEO expert and 2. Whether it is possible to make an SEO guide book.. On item 1. the posts seem to be getting rough. Shari Thurow sets the bar high for her standards of who could be considered an SEO expert. When I went to the university, 40 years ago, they didn't have the kind of courses that Shari specified, and even if they did whatever I would have learned then would be out of date by now. There are many people on this list with hands-on experience who should be listened to regardless of their degrees. Can there be an SEO guide? I think many people have tried to do it and have written ebooks on the subject. Some of them are quite helpful but I am not sure if there will ever be one definitive guide to the subject. However, in the process of debating this issue it would better if we could be constructive and either contribute useful SEO infornation, help to set up a process of collecting information, or point out where this information can be found. Sincerely, Donald Nelson www.a1-optimization.com ------------------------------------------------------- The LED Digest is sponsored by pair Networks: pair.com for Hosting | pairNIC.com for Domains The Archives: http://www.led-digest.com/content/view/126/120/ Subscribe: http://www.led-digest.com/content/view/52/77/ Unsubscribe, Change Email, or Hold / Resume Delivery: http://www.led-digest.com/content/category/4/17/86/ (c) Copyright 1995-2007 Orange Wheel, LLC. All Rights Reserved. ----------------------------------------------------------------- "The greatest strength is gentleness." - Iroquois |
