| LED Digest 2348: When Firms Rebag Your Work |
|
|
|
================================================== The LED Digest Moderated Discussion List "Effective Online Advertising, Since 1997" Data > Information > Knowledge > Wisdom pair Networks: The LED's Web Host Hosting and Domain Registration from a Trusted Leader pair.com for Hosting | pairNIC.com for Domains ================================================== List Moderator: Published by: Adam Audette LED Digest adam, led-digest.com http://www.led-digest.com .............................................. February 15, 2007 Issue no. 2348 .............................................. .....IN THIS DIGEST..... ====== NEW ===================== --== Firm 'Rebagging' Original Work ==-- ~ Mark Bishop "How should I feel about someone 'rebagging' my original work?" ==== CONTINUING ================= --== Harvester-Proof Email ==-- ~ Joe Halbrook "Kudos on this revolutionary idea!" ~ David Spahr "America Online immediately evaporated." --== Web Log Analysis Software ==-- ~ Asim Jalali "I would recommend ClickTracks..." ~ Geof Day "Check out Sawmill web log analysis..." ~ Doug Burt "You could try the Google Analytics..." ~ James Miller "I have a program called Daisy..." <Moderator Comment> --== Bad SEO ==-- ~ Thomas M. Schmitz "...a SEO may do all the right things only to see a web site's rankings tank." ~ Barry Shoor "What I believe is missing from this burgeoning industry is an independent certification..." --== Down on Designers ==-- ~ John Smart "This job would be so much easier without [clients]!" ==== BULLETIN BOARD ============= --== UK Firm Looking for Talent ==-- ~ Barry S Mills ========== NEW =================================== From: Mark Bishop Subject: Rebagging an Existing Site... A few weeks ago I posted about a colleague who was asking for links in a way that didn't seem on the up and up http://www.led-digest.com/content/view/1696/55/. Thanks for all your feedback. I was able to forward him much of the supplied advice. In the end he didn't listen to me but at least I did my part in educating another web user. Here's another question for the group. I had a client who I designed a site for four years ago. I would like to say that it was a well done site. Simple site structure, visually compelling and it optimized pretty well but not great. Well, it turns out that the owner wanted to optimize it more and hired an SEO expert without telling me. What this company did was take my design, tweak it, added a few new visual elements, then re host on their host it and put a "Designed by XXX" on it an removed all credit to me. The content has not changed other than more text on the home page, and forty links on the bottom of each page that links to forty pages that all have the same home page content other than a simple search and replace (in the text and meta tags) for the names of forty neighborhoods in our metro area to optimize for local searches. There are two questions here... 1) How should I feel about someone "rebagging" my original work? and 2) Is this type of "optimization" going to help or hurt in the long run? Mark Bishop ======== CONTINUING =============================== From: Joe Halbrook Subject: Harvest-proof email > The email address can not even be harvested by manually > clicking on the link. The system never discloses the real > destination email address to any party, robot or human. - Will Bontrager, LED Digest 2347 - http://www.led-digest.com/content/view/1744/55/ Hi Will. I like this! Very clever. I did something similar to this in 1995, with a product I called e-ads, which caused pop-up ads to appear with form fields in them to be collected into a database, with full list management behind the database. (I wish I hadn't killed the project so quickly as, about 3 to 4 years later, mailing list management software really started to flourish.) One thing I did after the pop-up, was to return the parent window to it's history(-1) page. Thus, in effect, the user remained on the same page, after the click-thru, instead of a blank page. That feature would be the icing on the cake. Kudos on this revolutionary idea! Joe Halbrook http://www.cleanmymailbox.com -------- new post - same topic -------- From: David Spahr Subject: Email Harvesters Defeated! Wrong! > I realize stating this system is harvester-proof may > be setting myself up for apparent contradiction. - Will Bontrager Yes, you are. You have not tested this thoroughly enough. I went to your site and clicked on the link to try it out. America Online immediately evaporated. It would not reopen. I had to restart my computer. Trash AOL if you want but I use it because I have spread my email address across the internet far and wide in business pursuits since 1995. I prefer to have the address continue to work. Changing email addresses costs money BTW and a lot of time to repair the damage. Why do I need this? Because unlike many of you who just sell, I need to buy as well. The internet has become my best place to buy. Someone could have something truly great to sell to me. I don't need them clicking on a dead email address. Incidentally, I am curious to know how many SEOs have given 10 seconds of thought to the buying aspects of web design and optimization. How often is it discussed? In general, on this list I am the only one who brings it up. People don't seem to realize that sales isn't everything. If I have a poor selling month and a great buying month, my site was still successful. All the metrics and log files in the world cannot quantify this. Also, AOL does things other interfaces do not do. Really. Certain email features save me a lot time on a daily basis such as being able to drag text into the send to: box and the subject: box without needing to use the clipboard. That is a huge help when I am punching out a bunch of invoices and need to keep my invoice form on the clipboard. There are a number of reasons why automated invoicing would not be good for my business. Without the personal aspect and the custom solutions I personally provide, I would be history business-wise. Yes, I have to mind the store. Curiously, I don't get any more spam than anyone else. In fact, I think it has declined somewhat. Considering the number of different email addresses I have out there flapping in the breeze, it certainly makes one wonder. Here is another thing. If you sent someone an email through a form or with cloaking such as this and they do not respond and you cannot look up the details of the email you sent, doesn't that make you crazy? If you, a site owner, use a system like this, it puts an extra onus on you to respond or you will be alienating and losing a lot of people. That is not good any way you cut it. David Spahr * Stereoviews.com * Antique-Photography.com -------- new post - new topic -------- From: Asim Jalali Subject: Analytics > Can anyone recommend web log analysis software, > to analyse my raw server log files. At the moment the > software needs to be free... - Niall Kennedy, LED Digest 2347 - http://www.led-digest.com/content/view/1744/55/ I would recommend ClickTracks as log analyzer / visitor behaviour analysis software. They have a free trial available. http://www.clicktracks.com/ Regards, Asim Jalali -------- new post - same topic -------- From: Geoffrey Day Subject: Analytics Check out Sawmill web log analysis http://www.sawmill.net/. It is free for 30 days or longer if you can help them improve the product. Many others available. None are cheap on the learning curve front. By all means check out: http://www.webmasterworld.com/analytics/3213260.htm Geof Day -------- new post - same topic -------- From: Doug Burt Subject: Analytics Niall, You could try the Google Analytics program although many here on this list choose not to use it because of some of Google's policies regarding the collecting of your information. You can access it through a free Google Adword's account. http://www.google.com/analytics/ Doug Burt http://www.devromedia.com doug, devromedia.com -------- new post - same topic -------- From: James Miller Subject: Analytics I have a program called Daisy, which I have used to do my own web analysis. If anybody would like a free copy to see how they get on with it, let me know. I use it to show which pages are visited and also to analyse the sequences people do on a web site. It can be quite useful in making your site more efficient. James Miller Daisy Analysis: www.daisy.co.uk james, daisy.co.uk <Moderator Comment> Just to add a few more to the list: AWStats: http://awstats.sourceforge.net/ Analog: http://www.analog.cx/ Webalizer: http://www.mrunix.net/webalizer/ I use Webalizer along with Analog and Google Analytics. Both of the former packages are not nearly as strict as Google's in tracking unique visitors, so they tend to inflate that stat along with pageviews. Also, I've found referrer information to vary markedly in all of these tools, which is something to consider. I like the 'new' versus 'returning' visitors stats Google gives you, and it does a good job of tracking events that you can customize. I use this to track the subscriptions on the LED site by setting up funnel paths and monitoring the conversions. Google Analytics also gives you an ecommerce option that can monitor things like cart abandonment. Another worthy mention (not free) is CrazyEgg http://www.crazyegg.com/ , which acts like a heatmap for your site. I've used it for finding out where visitors are most likely to click, and the results have been sometimes surprising. You can compare different ad color palettes, locations, text, etc side by side using this tool (similar to what multivariate testing can do, but simplified). Also worth a mention is Google's Website Optimizer service ties into AdWords and uses multivariate testing to improve conversions: http://services.google.com/websiteoptimizer/ -Adam -------- new post - new topic -------- From: Thomas M. Schmitz Subject: Bad SEO > I have had the experience of dealing with an > optimization outfit and it turned out to be a > nightmare... I totally dropped out of site on the > search engines... My advice is to stay away > from the optimization people unless you > have *no other choice*. - Thomas Hyde, LED Digest 2346 - http://www.led-digest.com/content/view/1743/55/ Mr. Hyde, I can imagine how upset you were. I often read stories like yours and they continue to give Search Engine Optimization consulting a black eye. I do not expect I will be able to change your mind, but I will offer some advice to LED readers. 1) I agree with Mr. Hyde. You are paying your SEO consultant. That means you have a right to know exactly what your consultant will do, know why they want to do it, and have an opportunity to approve or disapprove any course of action. Non-disclosure agreements can bind both sides of a contract so your SEO consultant should have nothing to fear. If your SEO consultant is so afraid of revealing their secret sauce then they are either angst-ridden, distrustful or incompetent. Would you choose to work with any of these three? 2a) SEO consultants cannot guarantee results; it is wise to suspect those that do. (Google specifically warns against this) Search Engine Optimizers cannot control the rankings and they do not control the SEO efforts of your competitors. Ultimately, optimizers give web sites and documents the ability to compete effectively for high rankings. This can be compared to how a magazine publisher can tell you how many subscribers they have and how many newsstand copies they generally sell. What that publisher cannot tell you is how many prospects or customers your advertisement will attract. A good SEO consultant will charge you for the work and the expenses and will work their tails off to do a good job on your behalf. If a consulting contract reads like a shopping trip to Nordstrom, where you can always take it back, something is seriously wrong. 2b) While this is probably not the case for you Mr. Hyde it is worth mentioning for the wider LED audience that a Search Engine Optimizer may do all the right things only to see a web site's rankings tank. The search engines are constantly changing their algorithms, the formulas they use to create their Search Engine Result Pages (SERPs). In the past search engine updates were infrequent, contained many significant changes and could affect the majority of web sites. Perhaps the best known example of this was Google's 2003 Florida Update. This is not as likely today because the ranking methodologies are much more mature and the search engine companies tend to make more frequent and more incremental changes. However, every update still leaves thousands of people wondering what happened to their rankings. 3) I realize that money can be a touchy subject and I assure you that I do not have $3,000 to throw away. However, once one begins adding up time consuming activities like writing content or code, soliciting links, or ongoing cost such as purchasing links, that $3,000 will not go very far. It's not uncommon for large businesses to spend $100,000 and even more, much more, on a SEO campaign. There are many credible and creative SEO consultants who work with small businesses and with lower-range budgets. Just be certain not to get yourself into an arms race with a bunch of superpowers, well moneyed competitors who dominate the search ranking you desire. (If anyone out there thinks this describes them I suggest Sun Tzu.) Hopefully most readers will find this to be a well-balanced assessment and perhaps even a little empowering. Thomas M. Schmitz, President SEOcritique.com -------- new post - same topic -------- From: Barry Shoor Subject: Bad SEO With an established business looking to expand utilizing the web, I can tell you first hand, that if you look, there are plenty of SEO "pundits" out there looking for your work. Unfortunately, outside of "Google Certified" one is left to getting quotes or buying software that supposedly will help. What I believe is missing from this burgeoning industry is an independent certification through an association that has strict levels, guidelines and a verification process. Barry Shoor Personal Emergency Alert Responders -------- new post - new topic -------- From: John Smart Subject: Designers We found that clients were not too keen to pay us to change price lists etc, they did not want it done on our time table, but on their's. (clients -- sheesh! This job would be so much easier without them!) With that in mind I developed software for our clients to use. They cannot do too much damage! They cannot change the page layout, but they can change the main content of any page, easily add images, tables, edit / delete / add content, change the page title and meta tags (for the slightly more adventurous). But they cannot modify the page format, the style, navigation menus and the like. I have yet to hear a client say anything bad about it -- they all love it! In essence it turns any site into a template site -- with out it looking like a template! Of course, I want you all to buy this service from me, but to be honest, it is not rocket science, and those able should consider creating your own version, and those curious should visit http://demo.internetdesign.com and follow the admin link at the top of the page. Kindest regards, John Smart InternetDesign.com - A Human Touch in a Digital World ==== BULLETIN BOARD =============================== From: Barry Mills Subject: Looking for Talent With kind permission from Adam, I'd like to use the list to see if I can find the right person(s) to strengthen our team at Netstep. Before anyone points it out, this is kind of an advert, so sorry to anyone whom it isn't relevant to. It's also an experiment, as Adam & I have chatted about the potential of the list for recruitment, tendering and the like. And the truth is, we just don't know - on the one hand there are a lot of people in a common industry, but on the other hand they're spread over the globe. So as we need people right now, I thought let's just try it and see what happens. I figure if you try something you usually learn something, even if it's just that it was a dumb idea. So here goes. I'm looking for a senior search marketing professional, to head up a new search marketing division with an established client base, offering SEO and PPC. There are confidential (and rather more exciting) elements to the role but if anyone would like to know more please drop me an e-mail off-list. Ideally we're looking for someone to operate from our offices near Leeds in the North of England (that's the end of the country with the scenery and superior beer). But I'm not uninterested in hearing from freelancers or sub-contractors who can help in these areas, or people interested in tele-working. I'm also looking for new media project / account managers, and at least one developer, but they would have to be based in Yorkshire. I've no idea how many of the 40k LEDers are within driving distance of where I am, so this is a shot in the dark. I'll let you know what happens, thanks for humouring me. Barry S Mills, Chairman Netstep http://www.netstep.co.uk barry, netstep.co.uk ------------------------------------------------------- The LED Digest is sponsored by pair Networks: pair.com for Hosting | pairNIC.com for Domains The Archives: http://www.led-digest.com/content/view/126/120/ Subscribe: http://www.led-digest.com/content/view/52/77/ Unsubscribe, Change Email, or Hold / Resume Delivery: http://www.led-digest.com/content/category/4/17/86/ (c) Copyright 1995-2007 Orange Wheel, LLC. All Rights Reserved. ----------------------------------------------------------------- "Hollywood's a place where they'll pay you a thousand dollars for a kiss, and fifty cents for your soul." - Marilyn Monroe |
