| LED Digest 2360: New Sites & Google - A Test |
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================================================== The LED Digest Moderated Discussion List "Effective Online Advertising, Since 1997" Data > Information > Knowledge > Wisdom GetWebContent.com : the LED's Key Sponsor Professional Copywriting from the Web's Copy King ================================================== List Moderator: Published by: Adam Audette LED Digest adam, led-digest.com http://www.led-digest.com .............................................. March 5, 2007 Issue no. 2360 .............................................. .....IN THIS DIGEST..... ====== NEW ===================== <Moderator Comment> ~ Introducing our Key Sponsor --== A Test: New Sites & Google ==-- ~ Tracy Coyle "...I purchased the domain on Saturday, it was [indexed in] Google on Tuesday." ==== CONTINUING ================= --== On Rude Emails... ==-- ~ Richard Ackerberg "I ban them from ever ordering from my web sites." ~ Shaun Dixon "You catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar." ~ Malcolm Fitzgerald "...it's your job to administer the list. It's that simple: it's your job." <Moderator Comment> "Who's responsibility is it to manage their subscriptions - the list owner or the subscriber?" --== Fabricating Content for SEO ==-- ~ Thomas M. Schmitz "...online tactics have changed the landscape of marketing ideology. It's a brave new world out there." ~ Peggy Deras "This is the sort of valuable content that sets a site apart." ~ Nathan Holley "...who needs testing and analysis when the proof is in the pudding?" ========== NEW =================================== <Moderator Comment> Greetings LEDer, I'd like to announce the LED's new Key Sponsor: GetWebContent.com is a professional copywriting service launched by long-time LEDer Joel Lesser. You might recognize Joel's name from the excellent posts he contributes here on occasion, or possibly through his affiliation with his successful business, LinksManager.com. Joel is a class act and his company is a perfect fit for the LED: they're a professional, ethical business providing a useful service that the Web community can benefit from. So, what is GetWebContent (GWC) and how can it help you? In a nutshell, GWC is a provider of top-quality, professional copywriting services for websites. Here are a few factors that set GWC apart from other services like it: - They're dedicated to giving you easy access to original and interesting web copy; - They're masters at crafting relevant, 'search engine optimized' web copy written specifically for your site and your budget; - They have experience creating content that can boost your page views, search engine rankings and most importantly, sales; - They employ a team of professional copywriters with experience writing for Fortune 500 companies like Panasonic, Honda, InfoWeek, Wired News, CNET, Fuji, and many others. Be sure to check out this article on led-digest.com for an example of the kind of work they can do: "SOHO SEO: Search Engine Optimization on a Shoestring Budget" http://www.led-digest.com/content/view/1759/174/ You can find out all about their services here: http://www.getwebcontent.com/about-getwebcontent.php Over the next year you'll see GWC's ads within the LED, and you'll note their brand is now integrated into the template as well. Welcome to the LED, GWC! Best wishes, Adam -------------------- From: Tracy Coyle Subject: A Test - New Sites and Google Adam, I wonder if you would participate in a test? I own a domain. It has been parked offline since purchase on GoDaddy. I have hosting capacity and can move it to my host by changing the DN server addresses from GoDaddy to my host at any time. The last time I put up a site, I purchased the domain on Saturday, it was available via Google on Tuesday. I think most people do not believe things can happen that fast. Here is my suggestion: Post this test in LED. When the issue hits my email box (or 8am whichever is later - I don't sit at my computer til 8am) I will go online to GoDaddy and change the DNS addresses. I will then upload the files I have created to launch the site. I will specify the keywords I will use. Note: the site is private and the front page only has a login box. Therefore, all the SEO in the world is not going to help me much - there is no content to match meta-keywords with. I will promote the site as I always do, post to my blog, link from it, and a link from my partners website. Keywords: private classifieds, members only marketplace. Comments? Tracy Coyle ======== CONTINUING =============================== From: Richard Ackerberg Subject: Rude emails Hello Folks: I have been a faithful subscriber since day 10, I think. On the subject of rude emails I simply do the following. I ban them from ever ordering from my web sites. How do I do that? I simply send them a form letter that states the following: "Thank you for your email. Because of your rudeness you are banned from ever ordering from our web sites again. Don't even attempt to." That gets them more irate than all the cursing in the world. Regards, Richard Ackerberg American Gumball Machine Co. American Pogo Stick Co. / FunSportUSA www.antiquegumball.com www.pogostickusa.com -------- new post - same topic -------- From: Shaun Dixon Subject: Rude emails We receive the occasional angry or rude email and I have found the best way to deal with them is to hit the reply button and thank the sender for their comments. Many times that has resulted in an apology from the sender and even the occasional sale. You catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar. Shaun Dixon free daily tarot card http://www.jsoftconsulting.com/escopes/tarot/dc/index.php?001&id=led -------- new post - same topic -------- From: Malcolm Fitzgerald Subject: Rude emails > The email that raised my ire was from a new subscriber. > She'd just joined the list about 1 week ago. Her subject > line was something like "GET ME OFF YOUR LIST!!" - Adam Audette, LED Digest 2358 - http://www.led-digest.com/content/view/1757/55/ If you are the list owner, it's your job to administer the list. It's that simple: it's your job. Just because you've set up an "unsub" utility that enables your subscribers to "unsub" doesn't mean that you have any less responsibility for the administration of the list. That utility just reduces your work load. It doesn't mean that users have to use it. Some may find it easier to send you an email saying "GET ME OFF YOUR LIST!!". When that happens you simply have to unsub them - and that should be easy to do - shouldn't it? Malcolm Fitzgerald <Moderator Comment> Hmm... perhaps you've never managed an email list, Malcolm :-) Your point is definitely interesting; actually what you're saying is in direct opposition to Amy Moore's point from last Friday: ----------------------- "... it seems to me that if people have the ability to subscribe and in the process, they have read and agreed to a user agreement, they also have an ethical responsibility to manage their own unsubscription. If they honestly cannot uphold their end of a "thanks for giving me something of value for free", I believe they have a responsibility to politely request assistance from someone else." Source: http://www.led-digest.com/content/view/1758/55/ ----------------------- I tend to agree with Amy on this issue. The unsub functionality is on the Web to save me time. I'm not complaining, but this list has lots of activity - people are subscribing, unsubscribing, changing their emails and holding / resuming their subscriptions every day. Try managing that by hand and you'll quickly lose your mind! (and most of your day) Then, try managing a few more newsletters... and then a few more on top of that. Before you know it, you'll be swamped with enough work that people asking for your assistance to do something plainly indicated in every issue of your list is, well, annoying at best. And then, on top of annoying they get rude and sometimes insulting. Aside from the duties of my job, emotions tend to interfere at that point... which is the crux of the matter I guess. It would be interesting to hear other perspectives on this. Who's responsibility is it to manage their subscriptions - the list owner or the subscriber? Adam ============ Sponsor Message =========== Pirates of the Caribbean, what a great flick. Lots of kids want to grow up to be pirates. Some go into the web content business. They loot copy from one client and sell it to many more. The clients get to walk the plank, because duplicate copy is a big SE no-no. At http://GetWebContent.com/LED, our copy is custom crafted for you and you alone. ============ Sponsor Message =========== -------- new post - new topic -------- From: Thomas M. Schmitz Subject: Linkbait > Yes. But did they get any more BUSINESS? > Also... what is the long term effect of engaging > in this tactic? - Michael Linehan, LED Digest 2359 - http://www.led-digest.com/content/view/1758/55/ Obviously I cannot speak for the domain or person in this example, but the general principals are that the linkbait page attracts links. The incoming links pass strength to the linkbait page and domain. Internal links from the linkbait page to the home page passes strength to the homepage. In turn, with the added strength, the home page ranks better for its keywords. From the better rankings the home page, which is targeted towards prospects, attracts more qualified / interested visitors. This results in more sales. The example cited was a test and atypical in that the content was not related to the main website content nor linked to the business content. That is why the original author was surprised when the homepage rankings improved. Some SEO professionals will tell you that continuing to use non-business related linkbait will dilute your domain's theme strength, though I have my own opinion. In practice linkbait content is usually related to the business content anyway so it should not be an issue. A number of factors, such as the quality of incoming links, on-site optimization, the search engine, etc... will affect results, however the general principal is sound. It's a nontraditional indirect approach and one of the reasons online tactics have changed the landscape of marketing ideology. It's a brave new world out there. Thomas M. Schmitz, President SEOcritique.com www.seocritique.com/blog -------- new post - same topic -------- From: Peggy Deras Subject: Generating content > Dirk [Johnson], I have to disagree with you. I think > a real-estate agent can find a ton of things to write > about that isn't "fake" content. - Renee Kennedy, LED Digest 2358 If I were looking for a new home and a realtor on the web, I would appreciate a site that had a Google Map showing all the homes sold by that realtor (including sales price and how long on the market). A neighborhood rundown on schools and other items of interest such as libraries, parks, good restaurants, etc. The list goes on and on. Such a site would demonstrate to me the value of that realtor's intimate knowledge about where I want to buy. And it could be duplicated in every neighborhood in the country, and still be unique; because every neighborhood is unique and every realtor's expertise is unique. This is the sort of valuable content that sets a site apart. Peggy Deras www.kitchenartworks.com -------- new post - same topic -------- From: Nathan Holley Subject: Social Media and More The LED is an interesting community because of its diversity. On the one hand, we have a core industry group of SEOs and marketers; on the other, we seem to have a large amount of small businesses and mom & pops. There are agencies and firms, clients and independent outsourcers. There's a wide range of experiences and abilities. So I'm a bit surprised that the social media and link bait controversy that Adam cited from SEOmoz hasn't stirred up more action here. Just a few comments and a lot of seeming complacency. Folks, don't be complacent. This is the new world of marketing on the 'net. It's a reality for many people (like me) who use link baiting techniques for clients and ourselves. I wanted to address a couple of posts from two of our esteemed contributors, as briefly as I'm able: > This article is typical of the kind of sloppy testing and > analysis that permeates the SEO community. The data > presented in the article do not support the conclusions... - Michael Martinez, LED Digest 2358 A fair point, but who needs testing and analysis when the proof is in the pudding? Here's how I measure the effectiveness of marketing techniques like this one: 1) Try the action 2) Watch for effects and consequences 3) Make conclusions That's basically what it boils down to. All of it is wrapped in typical analytical tools for tracking and user behaviour, but the overall approach is do-and-see simple. At least for me, and it works for me, but maybe not for everyone. > What Daniel should have done was capture Google's > reported external links through Webmaster Central's tools > PRIOR to releasing the 2 or more link bait articles and then > capture the external links AFTER seeing the changes in rankings. I agree, and that would be very interesting data. It's probably true that the rankings boost he got for the client isn't solely due to his linkbait experiment - it might be a coincidence and other factors may have contributed. I don't need this specific "proof" though - he's speaking about something I've seen for myself before - and again the proof's right there in the pudding. Unfortunately most of SEO is about links, and like it or not the algo's haven't really evolved that much. There are exceptions, no doubt about it. But you can get pretty ham-fisted with your marketing and bludgeon a site into top ranks with nothing more than links. > But did they get any more BUSINESS? - Michael Linehan, LED Digest 2359 Well, probably, and I hope they're tracking conversions. The improvement in rankings he got for his client will no doubt generate an increase in leads, unless the site totally sucks. ;) > ... what is the long term effect of engaging > in this tactic? Uhm I dunno... lots of links and good rankings? One key issue that doesn't seem to be of concern here is how incoming links pointing to deep pages improve rankings across an entire domain. There's a pretty even split over this and here's some more reading for you if it's of interest: From SEOmoz (again) and Rand Fishkin, king of the self-promoters and probably one of the most talented link-baiters working: --------------------- "Many folks new to search marketing, and even some with experience, incorrectly assume that many elements of the PageRank model are still in place, including the idea that the link weight, anchor text relevance and trust passed from a link influence only the single page targeted by that link. "In fact, the reverse is true - a link from a high quality, trusted source can raise the rankings of many pages on a domain because the search engines aren't just counting the link as a vote for the singular page, but as a vote for the entire domain." Source: http://www.seomoz.org/blog/two-clarifications... --------------------- He calls his theory the "rising tide lifting all ships" and recommends keeping as much content as possible on a single domain. On the other side of the equation, Jennifer Laycock argues that generating irrelevant articles for SEO and linkbait is nothing more than a SEO loophole that will soon close: --------------------- "Why? Because it's not logical, nor useful for a web site to increase the rankings of a site simply because a completely unrelated article appeared on the same domain. Is it logical for a search engine to promote a web site about used cars into better rankings because there happens to be a popular article talking about diseases and super powers on the same domain? No, it's not." Source: http://www.searchengineguide.com/laycock/009489.html --------------------- The debate from two sides of the table. Hope this helps fill your workday with stuff to think on. Cheers, Nathan Holley holleymoney, gmail.com ------------------------------------------------------- The LED Digest is sponsored by GetWebContent.com: Professional Copywriting from the Web's Copy King The Archives: http://www.led-digest.com/content/view/126/120/ Subscribe: http://www.led-digest.com/content/view/52/77/ Unsubscribe, Change Email, or Hold / Resume Delivery: http://www.led-digest.com/content/category/4/17/86/ (c) Copyright 1995-2007 Orange Wheel, LLC. All Rights Reserved. ----------------------------------------------------------------- "Try to find your deepest issue in every confusion, and abide by that." - D. H. Lawrence |
