| LED Digest 2412: SEO and Copywriting |
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================================================== The LED Digest Moderated Discussion List "Effective Online Advertising, Since 1997" Data > Information > Knowledge > Wisdom www.GetWebContent.com/LED : the LED's Key Sponsor The Web's Most Experienced SEO Content Providers. ================================================== List Moderator: Published by: Adam Audette LED Digest adam, led-digest.com http://www.led-digest.com .............................................. May 17, 2007 Issue no. 2412 .............................................. .....IN THIS DIGEST..... ====== NEW ====================== --== Google Languages & Databases ==-- ~ Lars Ekdahl "Does Google have different databases in their different language versions?" --== SSL Advanced Integration ==-- ~ John Smart "I have a client who sells online with no SSL..." ==== CONTINUING ================= --== SEO and Content ==-- ~ Mark J. Welch "Human readability MUST be the first concern, in my opinion." ~ Joel Anderson "Usability is the most important. People buy stuff, search engines do not." ~ Elliot Borin "...you are [unlikely] to find an SEO specialist who knows how to write sales messages." --== The Gatekeeper Mentality ==-- ~ David Spahr "...this thread was making me feel a bit like a gatekeeper myself." --== Blocked by Hotmail ==-- ~ George Miller "I have discovered that all accounts on my server are being blocked." --== Do Macs Need Virus Protection Now? ==-- ~ Veronica Yuill "On Macs and Linux, the default is to run as a low-privilege user." ==== BULLETIN BOARD ============= --== New Social Site for SEO ==-- ~ Beth Earle ========== NEW =================================== From: Lars Ekdahl Subject: Google Have Different Databases? Does Google have different databases in their different language versions http://www.google.com/language_tools?hl=en . If not do they have different priorities? The results can anyhow be very different. If I search for color management Photoshop CS3 in the Swedish version of Google I get one of my pages as 1: http://snipurl.com/1kvb7 [google.com] In the English version I do not know how far back this page is. How come? Must be important for everybody doing international business. Lars Ekdahl http://www.ekdahl.org/hemsida1/nysidaen.html Comment? -------- new post - new topic -------- From: John Smart Subject: SSL Advanced Integration I have a client who sells online with no SSL, using the old sim method with Authorize.net (where the shopper is redirected to the Authorize.net site to enter their card details). My question is, does any one have any figures about the increase (or not) in sales from going non SSL / Authorize.net Simple Integration Method and moving up to SSL / Advanced Integration Method? Thanks for your input! John Smart InternetDesign.com A Human Touch in a Digital world. Comment? ======== CONTINUING =============================== From: Mark J. Welch Subject: Content & Copywriters Adam asked four questions, apparently directed to SEO (search engine optimization) providers and agencies but equally applicable to merchants and publishers themselves. I don't sell myself as an SEO provider, nor do I rent myself out as a "writer" or "editor." However, I do sometimes accept those roles for brief periods during my consulting work. I also allocate considerable time on writing and editing for my own sites (including some directory sites, and "affiliate-role" content sites). > 1) Do you write your own copy or hire a copywriter? Personally, I write all my own copy -- I outsource nothing for the web sites that I create in my role as an "affiliate." My undergraduate degree was in journalism and I wrote full-time for publication for several years; while my later training and experience as an attorney did impair my writing skills a little bit, after ten years away from the practice of law, I think I've now recovered from that setback. Most of my "successful" clients have staff competent enough to write all their own copy. I've had some clients who relied on outsourced writing, but who later ended their relationship with those writers, and the site's writing quality quickly dropped -- and the "voice" of the new content was distinctly different from the "voice" of the older content. (Of course, the same thing can happen if you must replace an in-house writer.) > 2) When writing copy for the web, what's > more important: usability or SEO? Human readability MUST be the first concern, in my opinion. Over time, I think the search engines "figure it out" if you auto-generate content that is designed just to "capture" search-engine placements. And after all, when your text does succeed in drawing a good placement on Google, that means visitors will be clicking through to that content, so it ought to be readable. > 3) Should copywriting be outsourced > overseas? There is nothing wrong with hiring copywriters who live overseas, provided that they are truly fluent in the language being used and in the culture being written about. Unfortunately, usually the only opportunity here is to hire a COMPANY (not an individual) to do the copywriting or editing. These "offshore" companies often have high turnover, and the copywriter who is assigned to write copy during the first few days or weeks of your contract will probably be re-assigned to attract new clients, and you'll then get the work of less skilled writers and editors. Note that "writing skill" is often hard to separate from "cultural understanding and experience" One of my clients used offshore writers in India, who clearly did not share many of the cultural experiences that I consider integral to American life. For example, we had writers assigned to write about cars and driving who had never owned nor even driven a car, nor apparently ridden in any cars that are sold in the US. The result was a terrible misunderstanding of which features were important, and which were not. The same writers, although superficially competent, did not understand the usage of common American idioms, and often constructed their own bizarre idioms, in addition to using idioms that might be common in other countries (mostly Britain) but unfamiliar to US readers. After several changes of writers, I determined that the offshore company was dedicated only to providing the most minimally competent writing that we were willing to accept. In the end, the client insisted that the writing which I considered unacceptable (because it required substantial amounts of my time to edit) was "good enough," and this was one of several reasons why I decided to end my relationship with that client. My own preference would be to hire only writers for whom English is their primary language (this excludes most Indian writers who are generally competent in English but who mostly speak Hindi with colleagues and at home). However, I would not make this a "rule," since I have certainly met many journalists who can write very well in English despite the fact that they speak another language in "daily life." I would prefer writers who have lived in the US at some time, and who make some effort to "keep up" with US culture. > 4) What's a fair price to pay for > copywriting services? It absolutely depends on the context. Writing sales copy is a very specific skill, generally commanding rates above $20 per hour for freelance work (much more for "really good" writing). Writing, rewriting, or editing technical copy (including sales copy about technical products) can easily cost $40 to $50 per hour for freelance work. It's harder to place a price on writing "blog" content, but certainly you shouldn't expect decent quality for less than $10 per hour (probably $10 to $20 per "quality" blog article). If you want consistency -- especially a consistent "voice" and "character" for your writing over a period of weeks and months -- you should expect to pay $20 per hour or more. Our temptation is always to pay for work based on "pieces" -- articles written or edited, for example, but my experience has been that whenever I shift from hourly to "piece" rates, the quality plummets. As I noted, I once hired an outsourced editor whose work was quite good, but when she completed the first project, she announced that her rate would triple for future work. In that case, I definitely agreed that she was worth the higher rate, but the client's budget did not permit it (in the end, that client decided not to continue that project because of the cost, even though the cost was lower than I had originally forecast). On that same project, I assigned work to several other freelance editors who provided "competent" (but not exceptional) work during the initial test period, but who did awful work on the next assignments (probably spending much more time on the initial project, and then cutting corners on the second batch of work). Finally, for any writing or editing project, it is crucial that you have someone "in-house" who will actually review and evaluate the work being done. There is a huge temptation to "find someone good" and then leave them on their own, and then any quality issues are identified only after a bad experience based on works that have been published (for example, a customer complaint after a product description doesn't match the delivered product, a gradual drop-off in visitors due to poor writing quality, or negative publicity when something offensive is published on your web site. Mark J. Welch http://www.markwelch.com/ Comment? -------- new post - same topic --------- From: Joel Anderson Subject: Content > 1) Do you write your own copy or hire a copywriter? - Adam Audette, LED Digest 2411 Write my own copy. I enjoy writing. I tried using a copywriter and the results were laughable. The copywriter did not understand what I was selling or the target audience, thus totally missed the point (though he generated a lot of verbage) > 2) When writing copy for the web, what's > more important: usability or SEO? Usability is the most important. People buy stuff, Search Engines do not. A high Google ranking may be great, but if the web site does not generate sales (or whatever response you are looking for) it does not do any good. Copy should be written with your target audience in mind. However, when writing copy one should always keep SEO techniques in mind. Each page on my website is offers different items, so I try to write copy that will SEO that page by including words that likely to be searched multiple places in the copy. Yet all copy must be natural sentences so that the human (the one that actually makes the purchase) enjoys reading it and is encouraged to buy. Joel Anderson Interesting World Coins & Paper Money http://www.joelscoins.com Comment? -------- new post - same topic --------- From: Elliot Borin Subject: Content - SEO - Copywriting Search-engine optimization is a science, a matter of math and metrics designed to influence counting machines -- which is all ranking algorithms really are -- into adding points to your site's total. Copy writing is an art form designed to elicit an emotional response from humans. While there are always exceptions, the rule is that you're much more likely to find a copywriter who knows how to SEO text while still "selling" your product and services than you are to find an SEO specialist who knows how to write sales messages. The fact that the two specialties require almost totally different skills is why many top SEO experts contract out the copy writing they provide clients to professional writers. Elliot Borin Comment? ============ Sponsor Message =========== Will the real King please stand up? Sit down Content, you're no King. You're pictures, logos, imagery ... all kinds of stuff Google and the other SEs totally ignore. You, copy! Stand up! You're the Real King! You're words. You're the only page elements SE bots even look at. For the best search-engine-optimized website text in cyberspace, see the Copy Kings at www.GetWebContent.com/LED. ============ Sponsor Message =========== -------- new post - new topic -------- From: David Spahr Subject: Gatekeepers I certainly agree with Malcolm. I have to admit that this thread was making me feel a bit like a gatekeeper myself. That said, I spell out exactly what my link page is about and what I will and will not accept. I get so many link requests from people who clearly did not read or visit my links page. The gate is locked. Sorry. Off topic anyway. You have to have a gatekeeper mentality when you get several requests a day. How you ask is important. Anybody who asks me for a link in a ransom style request (I'll link you if you link me and if you don't I'll remove you) is likely to be turned away. These folks are usually off topic so I ignore them mostly. Once in awhile I send a scathing reply to a person regaling me with the incredible benefits of linking to them. This gambit is stupid IMHO. It certainly flies in the face of my philosophy. I paste links on my site to benefit my visitors. If they do not return the link then so be it. One thing I have noticed is that the people with the links I am most likely to add are most always respectful and do not play the ransom game. They have relevant content and they know it. They never mention page rank and they never tell me what a great benefit it will be to me if I link them. This seems to not be coincidence. David Spahr http://stereoviews.com Comment? -------- new post - new topic -------- From: George Miller Subject: Hotmail blocked > It is doubtful any one person or business can get > Hotmail to remove their restrictions on attachments. - Ron Coble, LED Digest 2410 - http://www.led-digest.com/content/view/1814/55/ Dear Shaun and Ron, Thanks for posting, but sadly this is not just a domain based problem now. I have discovered that all accounts on my server are being blocked. This is not an ISP problem as I have spoken to the hosting company, who say its nothing to do with them. Mail can be blocked from any ISP as well, I'm on Virgin Media, everyone else is on BT. So it appears is blocking everything from my server. I have also tried just a test hello message to a friend on hotmail, it got blocked straight away same problem. George Miller www.pc24hr.co.uk Comment? -------- new post - new topic --------- From: Veronica Yuill Subject: Mac spam There's something John Smart didn't mention in his post [ http://www.led-digest.com/content/view/1815/55/ ] about the relative importance of Windows / Mac / Linux as targets for viruses -- it's likely that when you do get hit by a virus on Mac or Linux, it will have far less potential to do serious damage. Most Windows users run as administrators, which means a trojan running under their account can do whatever it wants to the OS. On Macs and Linux, the default is to run as a low-privilege user. If you want to change configuration or do anything that affects the OS itself, you are prompted for your root password -- which alerts you to the fact that what you are about to do could be dangerous. So yes, a virus could delete or modify all your user files (you have backups of those of course), but it couldn't trash your OS unless you specifically said it could. Supposedly Vista is moving more towards the *nix way of doing things by popping up prompts with security warnings when you try to do something dangerous, so maybe matters will improve. Veronica Yuill www.larecettedujour.org Comment? ==== BULLETIN BOARD =============================== From: Beth Ann Earle Subject: Social Site for SEO Hi, LED'ers. Check it out! http://scoop.isedb.com/. My boss and I are both planning on signing up and trying it out. With LED'ly regards to all, Beth Earle www.pilotfishseo.com Comment? ------------------------------------------------------- The LED Digest is sponsored by GetWebContent.com The Web's Most Experienced SEO Content Providers. 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