| LED Digest 2423: Website Maintenance Rates |
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================================================== The LED Digest Moderated Discussion List "Effective Online Advertising, Since 1997" Data > Information > Knowledge > Wisdom www.GetWebContent.com/LED : the LED's Key Sponsor The Web's Most Experienced SEO Content Providers. www.SEOToolSet.com/training/ : the LED's Premier Sponsor Bruce Clay's Search Engine Optimization Training & Certification ================================================== List Moderator: Published by: Adam Audette LED Digest adam, led-digest.com http://www.led-digest.com .............................................. June 5, 2007 Issue no. 2423 .............................................. .....IN THIS DIGEST..... ====== NEW ===================== --== Webmaster Rates ==-- ~ Bob Sheridan "What is a fair price to charge...to maintain a small-medium size website..." --== Delivery of Confirmation Emails ==-- ~ Ivan Jimenez "...when the emails actually get in, they go to the bulk / spam mail folders." ==== CONTINUING ================= --== Can SEO Become Obsolete? ==-- ~ Shari Thurow "Search is a subset of usability." ~ Nathan Holley "[Google] wants to control the Internet, and SEOs take that control away." --== Losing Rankings to Scraper Sites ==-- ~ Mary Findley "Remember potential customers may not even realize what their problem is." ~ Peggy Deras "How do I decide what I want my home page to really be about?" ========== NEW =================================== From: Bob Sheridan Subject: Webmaster Renumeration Question Dear LEDr's, I have been supporting a non-profit accounting information systems educators association website on a part-time (volunteer) basis since 2005. The website is becoming more sophisticated (now has online registration and online payments features for our annual Conference). The website is written in FrontPage and I want to convert it to Microsoft's new Expression Web software, which entails creating Virtual Web Pages (to replace FrontPage Borders), rewriting "Forms" in order to replace using FrontPage Extensions and extensive work inside the associations website Historical Archive pages to fix broken and missing links left from past webmasters. The website has grown beyond "volunteer" work and I will soon be sending a proposal to the Board of Directors to approve "paid support" for maintaining and improving the website on an ongoing basis. My question to those of you who know is: - What is a fair price to charge as a Monthly Retainer fee to maintain a small-medium size website; - What is a fair "Hourly Rate" to charge for converting the website, adding new features, etc. above and beyond the monthly maintenance; Also, can anyone recommend a reliable web hosting company that doesn't use non-support hacks from India or the Philippines in the $20 /mo or less range? I am building a file server in my office to run Microsoft Server 2003 Web Edition for hosting my own company website and email server. I may just add the AIS educator association's website to my own web server and charge around $19.95/mo for hosting & personalized support. Regards, Bob Sheridan www.restaurantplus.com Comment? <Moderator Comment> Check out this thread for some good info, Bob: Website Maintenance Rates http://www.led-digest.com/content/view/710/54/ -adam Comment? -------- new post - new topic --------- From: Ivan Jimenez Subject: Email (Non-)Deliverability Hello All, It's been awhile since my last post, but I have been checking in ;) I am working on a new e-commerce site that is hosted on a Rackspace dedicated server (Windows 2003). We set up POP3 to handle the automated thank you emails confirming orders. Problem is... when the emails actually get in, they go to the bulk / spam mail folders. Gmail consistently marks it as spam but Hotmail and Yahoo! will either not show at all or send to bulk / junk based on messaging. We have gone through different messaging, new domains, new IP address, etc. and nothing seems to work. Did I mention the IP and domain addresses are brand new? Any ideas why this is happening? Thanks. Ivan Jimenez Comment? ======== CONTINUING =============================== From: Shari Thurow Subject: Will SEO Become Obsolete? > The internet is not free anymore, and SEO is obsolete. - Baruch Avraham, LED Digest 2419 - http://www.led-digest.com/content/view/1823/55/ Hi all- Greetings from the Search Marketing Expo conference. I thought it was ironic that this thread arose considering where I am at right now. No, SEO will not become obsolete. The reason why is that search usability is a subset of Web site usability, software usability, etc. The problem is that usability professionals and SEOs alike cling to this horrible (and erroneous) believe that the word "search" means "query" when there are so many different types of search behavior. Though I have to admit that I am dying to get rid of these idiot SEOs who do nothing but degrade the search usability experience and only chase rankings. Until the media and general public catch up with that group, we'll be seeing discussion threads such as "Will SEO become obsolete" for awhile. I don't think my graduate schools would accept my research if SEO were becoming obsolete, and I would not be teaching it at a bunch of universities (as a guest lecturer) in the fall. Rest assured, I am not going to teach the SEO garbage that is perpetuated in a lot of blogs and forums. Search is a subset of usability. The sooner everyone accepts it and sees it, the easier it will be for everyone to optimize their sites. Sincerely, Shari Thurow, SEO Director Grantastic Designs, Inc. Comment? -------- new post - same topic --------- From: Nathan Holley Subject: SEO Can SEO become obsolete? You bet it can! Here - I'll bring up a great post recently published in issue 2403 http://www.led-digest.com/content/view/1806/55/ This post was good enough to warrant a large quote: > One can presume that the online search will naturally come > to its place like any other eco-system. Users will be smarter > users, content will be better tagged, engines will become more > transparent... Eventually, laws, ethics, social norms and business > itself will catch up and there will be little room left for testing > boundaries. Soon enough, Google will become sedated like > an ancient library so let's enjoy the ride while it lasts. - Alex Hughart Great perspective. Online search will evolve, no doubt about it. It will evolve past Google to (hopefully) a less monopolistic model where multiple sources can be accessed that give us decent results. It will evolve (hopefully) to a less commercial affair with more thought to the access of information rather than the commodization of it. Right now it's almost the wild west. It's basically a free for all. Sure, Google's algo is sophisticated, but it's only 1 algo. It's easy to game. Easy to get high rankings for MOST categories. Yahoo and MSN are practically a joke, and Ask is... well I don't even know what Ask is to be honest. Where SEO comes into the picture: people. It's all about people connecting to things they want to find. Remember when Teoma was the answer for non-commercial search? It was the "sophisticated" choice. I don't know how their relevance compares now, but Google has definitely overtaken Teoma in every category of search and their relevance stinks. For the most part anyway. Google got people to believe in them by being simple, attractive, and having a colorful logo. The interface at google.com was actually groundbreaking in its departure from yahoo, and that's a scary thought. Google is more ad network than search engine. What they have going for them is an interface that's simple and a model that gives away. They've captured the largest chunk of web traffic imaginable and monetized it. They give away services like crazy, squeezing out smaller players (although the Webmaster Group at Google doesn't compare to LED). Imagine if a search engine put as much resources and focus (and PhDs) into an algorithm as Google puts into their potential revenues. It may be possible to create an algorithm (or multiple) that aren't so easy to game, that deliver terrifically relevant results, that the SEO community won't be able to manipulate incessantly. That would be sweet. But it would also force me into more practical work. My welfare depends on Google being easy to game ;) Google has invented a search engine and commercialized the hell out of it. Then, they have set arbitrary self-serving standards that claim doing ANYTHING for Google rather than users is wrong. Buying links = wrong. Excessive anchor text = wrong. Name your technique = wrong. SEOs have become the enemy of Google because they want to control the Internet, and SEOs take that control away. SEO can become obsolete, but not until a search engine comes along more sophisticated and less materialistic than Google. Nathan Holley Comment? ============ Sponsor Message =========== Ever wonder why Presidents and board chairmen hire professional writers to craft their speeches? Because they're usually trying to sell something, be it a new federal program or a lame excuse for a lousy fourth quarter. You're in sales, too. Online sales. Your site needs words that sell, power words. http://GetWebContent.com/LED words. ============ Sponsor Message =========== -------- new post - new topic --------- From: Mary Moppins Subject: Lost rankings Hi Peggy, I understand your site is dropping in ranks and sales are going with it. My site www.goclean.com has ranked #1 to about 6 or 7 in Google and others for the past 6 or 7 years for certain keywords like RV or boat cleaning. I don't know why but all of a sudden last Sept. sales just plunged. They have picked up a bit but nothing to what they had been. Several others I know experienced the same thing. Since I am not an expert in SEO, web page development etc, I hire that work to be done. My expertise is the cleaning industry. My income comes from getting articles placed in major magaines, newspapers and other websites on the internet. That is what gets my name out there and that is what brings in the traffic and sales. How many articles do you have on other websites? Are you pitching magazine editors as an expert to advise on design work? If your advertising was working, why did you stop? So from a marketing aspect I hope you won't mind if I make a few suggestions about the content on your front page. Marketing is not about you. It's not about who "I" am, what "I" do etc. Marketing is about your customer, their needs, their problems their dreams and desires. It's about pushing their buttons and hitting what is important to them so they will click that buy button. The second sentence on your front page starts with the word "I" and continues in abundance thoughout your front page. The word "I" is an instant client killer. I hate to say this Peggy but no one cares who you are. They have cabinets that need rework and they have no idea where to start. They want a new look and a kitchen that is more manageable. Your clients only care about themselves. They have a problem and they need solutions without turning page after page in a website to get their answers. A good example is to go web searching to redo your bathroom. Head to some bathroom remodeling sites. What would make you decide to contact that person? What turns you off? Write down on each site what you like and what you don't like. Everyone offers the same product but why buy from that particular person? Now put yourself in a position of a customer who needs a kitchen overhaul and go to your website. Take yourself out of the picture and into the feet of your customer. Your website has no real direction - there really is nothing on your front page to make me want to learn more. You tell people to go to your blog for answers. I don't want to have to plow through page after page of information finding what I need. Tell me about kitchen problems up front and send me to the pages with design ideas. Remember potential customers may not even realize what their problem is. Your job is to get them thinking about their kitchen, how they want it to flow, what are the obsticales, how can that be resolved? Point out potential problems then solve them. This is where marketing comes into play. Take a look at ads on TV the paper etc. These companies create a non-existent problem - then a product to solve it and make you feel guilty for having a problem you don't even have. A good example in the cleaning field are the products made for disinfecting floors. Oh give me a break, disinfect your floors? Who disinfects their feet? The second you walk on the floor the germs are back. The company made you feel guilty to get you to buy their product and it works. You have 3 or 4 bottles of disinfectants in your broom closet right? So point out potential problems in the kitchen and direct them to the solutions bringing in your most important keywords while you are doing it. After you have told them the problem, guided them to the solutions NOW tell them who you are that makes you more capable to solve it than the next person. Do that at the bottom of the page only in one sentence. Only focus on your customer not you. For instance "Peggy's training thru such and such school plus her number of years in this field professionally guides you through the kitchen design process into the kitchen of your dreams." This is short and to the point and it establishes your expertise. This is only an example but shows you how to eliminate the word "I" putting the information into a far more desirable and effective 3rd person. Yes my front page is being reworked because my current front page fails this important test :-) Have a wonderful day, Mary Findley, owner of Mary Moppins and author http://www.goclean.com Comment? -------- new post - same topic --------- From: Peggy Deras Subject: Lost rankings / Anchor Text WOW! Thanks everyone for your succinct and detailed descriptions of things I can do myself to improve my site's traffic. I will get right to work. A couple of things to clarify: I named my company Kitchen Artworks long before the web was a factor, and I have some notoriety in the industry and with old clients and contractors who refer work to me. So I couldn't consider changing it (though I do realize it is a bit of an albatross). And, I actually DO get local traffic on my site with keywords "kitchen artworks" and "Peggy Deras", so my efforts have not been in vain. I am also noticing that the "scraper sites" seem to be losing their rankings. Joy! Also, I use Urchin for my stats so I have long and detailed records on keywords that are used to find my site. I have noticed that recently the keyword phrases are quite often longer than two words, even whole sentences for some reason. And lots of different ones. But in the aggregate they account for a good bit of the (diminished) traffic. I will certainly take a look at changing site text content and keywords to enhance that effect. I also didn't at all understand the importance of Anchor Text and choosing the correct phrases to use. Now I get it. David, Lorelle and Ron's comments on these issues are very enlightening. Thanks SO much everyone! And a further question while I've got your valued attention: How do I decide what I want my home page to really be about? It really IS just a table of contents page now. Is that OK if I really direct visitors to enter deeper in the site? I am confused about what to do there. I realize that my site caters to "bandwidth-wasters" who would never hire me. But, I must admit, I enjoy the notoriety of high traffic and want to make a contribution to the web and my profession - kitchen design. The kitchen & bath industry is mostly made up of cabinet dealers and their employees (I used to be both). They sell the kitchen as a "dream" concept by packaging design and products together, when it really is just a collection of parts and pieces and decisions. I am something of a maverick, offering design without selling product, and "insider information" about how this mysterious industry works; both to my clients, for a fee, and on my web site, for the public. People who follow my advice save money, time and effort, and still get a "dream kitchen". This is what I want to get across. Well, I guess I've answered my own question. Thanks again everyone, Peggy Deras, CKD, CID Kitchen Artworks web: www.kitchenartworks.com blog: http://kitchen-exchange.blogspot.com/ Comment? ------------------------------------------------------- The LED Digest is sponsored by: GetWebContent.com The Web's Most Experienced SEO Content Providers. Free no-obligation proposal: http://GetWebContent.com/LED SEOToolSet.com Bruce Clay's Search Engine Optimization Training & Certification Join the certified SEO directory: www.SEOToolSet.com/training/ Interested in becoming a Key Sponsor? 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