| LED Digest 2429: Cultivating Customer Loyalty |
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================================================== The LED Digest Moderated Discussion List "Effective Online Advertising, Since 1997" Data > Information > Knowledge > Wisdom www.GetWebContent.com/LED : the LED's Key Sponsor The Web's Most Experienced SEO Content Providers. www.SEOToolSet.com/training/ : the LED's Premier Sponsor Bruce Clay's Search Engine Optimization Training & Certification ================================================== List Moderator: Published by: Adam Audette LED Digest adam, led-digest.com http://www.led-digest.com .............................................. June 13, 2007 Issue no. 2429 .............................................. .....IN THIS DIGEST..... ====== NEW ===================== <Moderator Comment> --== The Importance of Customer Service ==-- ~ Mark Roberts "...whatever happened to...going the extra mile to achieve customer loyalty and retention? <Moderator Comment> --== Third Party Database Issue ==-- ~ Chuck Hiatt "Is there anything that can be done to salvage this site?" ==== CONTINUING ================= --== When a Client Insists on Bad SEO ==-- ~ Kym McLaughlin "Your website can also help support your position." ~ Ivan Jimenez "My advice is short and sweet." ~ Lorelle Smith "If the client is digging in his heels on this issue, what's next? <Moderator Comment> --== Losing Rankings to Scraper Sites ==-- ~ Michael Martinez "What the query shows is that once you factor out the inbound anchor text..." --== Support a Fellow LEDer ==-- ~ Al Toman "Please tell ALL the wonderful LEDers that they brought a tear to my eye...one of joy!" ========== NEW ==================================== <Moderator Comment> I'm all over this issue, so watch out! (Not really, just a couple comments... but that's something for me.) Remember that mysterious guest moderator I mentioned? Well, he's going to wait until next Monday to unleash his fury upon you. I won't tell you who it is yet... just that he's a little rusty on this whole "Internet marketing thang" (as he calls it) and needs some time to educate himself. I recommended he start scouring Threadwatch for the latest tin foil hat theories, cruising Digg comments at -10, and watching random YouTube videos to get tuned for things here. Not! In all seriousness, we do have a guest mod coming, and he is a little dusty and rusty (drusty?). So be easy on him, please. Enjoy today's issue - it's a great one! -Adam Comment? --------------------- From: Mark Roberts Subject: Expanded SEO... The Importance of Customer Service I would like to broaden the scope of the discussions that we have been having of late on SEO and come at it from a little different angle. I speak from having internet businesses currently up and running. I currently derive over 90% of my sales directly from the internet. The strange part is that I don't rank that high in the results page on the search engines. To be honest, I haven't really even checked it lately. However, I am doing quite well... at least well enough that I have had to hire two additional employees the last couple of weeks just to try to keep even with the orders. Even though I can't find myself on the search engines, others seemed to be able to find me just fine (I still haven't figured that out quite yet). I have tried to do all the basic stuff. Like putting up good metatags, good content some relevant links and even use a few adwords on Google. I am sure I have room for a great deal of improvement in all of these areas. I know how to do it, but just haven't had the time. It appears to me that all of this SEO stuff is pushing to getting your name right up there on the top of all the search engines, preferrably on the first page. I suppose that is good, I don't know, I have never been there. Certainly, having your name on the first page, or on the top billboard, or on the most popular radio show is effective for pulling in those first time visitors... and eveyone was a first time visitor at one time. However, whatever happened to using great customer service, quality merchandise, going the extra mile to achieve customer loyalty and customer retention? The majority of my sales come from repeat customers, referrals from other customers, and referrals from competitors(?) by taking the time to work hand in hand within other companies who sell like products. I never fear a competitor. Instead, I try to get to know them, know their strengths and weaknesses. There is always someone who can do something that I do a little better, and vice versa. If I can't help a customer, I readily recommend them to someone else and others do the same for me. No doubt, if you scream the loudest, have the biggest sign or are number 1 in the search results, you will get the business. But, what about repeat business, customer loyalty? What has this got to do with SEO? What happens after the first big splash? Well, like I said, I would just like to see the general topic (Increased customer sales?) expanded to include such topics as customer retention, customer satisfaction, etc. Even though my SEO efforts are quite poor and feable, I do get a lot of visitors / customers and would like to have discussions about methods others have found to keep those customers coming back or increasing their purchases. For example, I offer free shipping on order over $25 which does seem to tempt people to buy 2 lesser expensive items just to get the free shipping. Surely others out there have discovered tips and techniques that have worked. I spoke with one of my customers this morning (an elderly lady in a retirement center in KY). She had thought she ordered 2 hummingbird feeders (only she actually only ordered 1) and thought she would get free shiping. She didn't and was afraid to order another one because of that. By the time I finished the conversation, I agreed to send her a second one and I would pay the shipping. I won't make much off this feeder, but I am betting on her telling other people in her center about the great customer service that she received. Mark Roberts Bird Houses by Mark http://www.birdhousesbymark.com Comment? <Moderator Comment> Great post, Mark. I'm sure it'll spark some interesting discussion. By the way, check out my comments in issue 2400 http://www.led-digest.com/content/view/1803/55/ where I mentioned the core business values of Zappos.com. Their CEO has focused primarily on strong customer service (they call themselves "a customer service company that happens to sell shoes"), and they're on track to do $1bil. in revenues in 2008. It has definitely worked for them! -Adam -------- new post - new topic -------- From: Chuck Hiatt Subject: Third Party Database I am a long-time LED reader who has a problem. My website has over 100,000 products on it but they are all contained in a database managed by an outside company. They do not count in any way toward placement or ranking. Because of this, I am limited to text content, tags and standard stuff when optimizing. I used to be a 1st page site for "promotional products" now I am nowhere to be found and traffic is down 90%. My question is this -- is there anything I can do to link product tags to my site without carrying an internal dbase? Is there anything that can be done to salvage this site? (traffically speaking). Any feedback would be appreciated. Chuck Hiatt Promogear.com, Inc. www.promogear.com Comment? ======== CONTINUING =============================== From: Kym McLaughlin Subject: Bad SEO > What do you do when you discover mid-project that > a client who has hired you for SEO is insisting on bad > SEO practices, such as keyword stuffing on the home page? - Alicia Lane, LED Digest 2427 - http://www.led-digest.com/content/view/1831/55/ Hi Alicia, I am assuming (yikes, hate to do that but...) you do not have a disclaimer in your contract to cover this type of situation. With that being said, I would very firmly say no to their request, list the reasons for your decision, and inform them if they should choose to use that method, it is at their own risk and you will waive any liability or responsibility. Your website can also help support your position. If you have a page that provides detailed information about the type of services you provide and also what you consider to be bad SEO techniques, etc. Redirect the client to this page and it will help back up your "Just say No to bad SEO" response to their request. I recommend including a disclaimer in future contracts stating that if the client (or any party hired by the client) should incorporate any "SEO/SEM" practices without your prior written permission, that you deem to be unethical, etc, that it will void your contract for service in its entirety and all work on your behalf will cease as will any responsibility to the site and/or client. This wording is just an example. Make sure that you go over this with the client so that they understand it prior to the start of any work. It will save you many headaches. I wish you the best of luck. Kym McLaughlin http://www.top20promote.com/ Comment? -------- new post - same topic --------- From: Ivan Jimenez Subject: Bad SEO Hi Alicia, My advice is short and sweet. Don't do anything you don't feel 100% comfortable with. Bottom line, if and when the tactics don't work, you'll assume the responsibility, like it or not! You don't need this type of business... Ivan Jimenez Comment? -------- new post - same topic --------- From: Lorelle Smith Subject: Bad SEO Alicia Lane asked what to do if a client insists on spamming the search engines by stuffing keywords and such. First, I would find out why the client thinks that's a good technique, and I would point him to reputable articles like Jill Whalen's HighRankings.com to enlighten and dissuade him. Also assure him that all it takes is one competitor to go crying to Google. If that didn't work, then I would do my best to fulfill my end of the bargain as originally contracted and then part company. I would definitely NOT do what the client misguidedly asked for if I knew it would be considered spam to the engines. It doesn't matter if the client takes full responsibility for the outcome. If the client is digging in his heels on this issue, what's next? If he wants to ruin the website, it will have to wait until after you've done the job you were hired to do. It's part and parcel of being a professional worthy of respect. Recently I asked my new dentist to change the color of a filling my previous dentist gave me by mistake, not realizing silver would show when I smile. My new dentist refused to damage a perfectly good tooth solely for cosmetic reasons, saying he has a moral and ethical obligation to follow only best practices for his patients. SEOs need to show just as much backbone, especially since there are so many quacks in our biz. Please take the high road, Alicia, for all our sakes! Lorelle Smith, The Keywordsmith Professional Keyword Research & Analysis Consultant http://www.Keywordsmith.com Comment? <Moderator Comment> Just wanted to update this thread with some comments from Lisa Barone over at the BruceClay.com blog. She has some great insights into this issue and emphasizes the importance of educating clients: ---------------- "Managing client relationships is an important part of any search engine optimization campaign. It's one of the reasons why we started requiring clients to attend our SEOToolSet training class. We felt, and still feel, that an educated client is a better client. An educated client is less likely to create a collection of keywords in the footer of their home page and call it "content". An educated client is more likely to work with their SEO to make sure the site is optimized correctly..." "...But regardless of how many times you try and educate the client, and despite what the contract says and what you've both agreed upon, you're going to come across an overeager client who thinks he or she can run their search engine optimization campaign better than you can." ---------------- Give it a read: http://www.bruceclay.com/blog/archives/2007/06/insisting_on_et.html Now I think we need a discussion on HOW you educate the client... for those of us without the resources to launch our own training school of course :-) Any thoughts on that? -Adam Comment? ============ Sponsor Message =========== Search-engine optimized content is not for everyone. People whose goal is to be a raging web failure don't need it. Everybody else does. To read how and why http://GetWebContent.com/LED does SEO copywriting better than anyone else, click http://GetWebContent.com/why-and-how-we-seo-your-copy.php. ============ Sponsor Message =========== -------- new post - new topic --------- From: Michael Martinez Subject: Lost rankings > I am not sure I understand the reasoning here. > The query used was: > > kitchen designer -inanchor:"kitchen designer" > > The top result for this search only uses "kitchen designer" > three times and it's not even in the title. In contrast, Peggy's > home page uses "kitchen designer" twice in the body text > AND in the title. - Alicia Lane, LED Digest 2428 - http://www.led-digest.com/content/view/1832/55/ Subtracting out the "inanchor" factor shows you pages that Google ranks without the benefit of anchor text. What the query shows is that once you factor out the inbound anchor text no one is really optimizing for the expression "kitchen designer". > How do you know you aren't also eliminating other > potentially content-rich sites, including Peggy's site, > if they happen to have "kitchen designer" anchor text > pointing to them? To test this, I did a search using > this Google query: > site:kitchenartworks.com inanchor:"kitchen designer" All this query tells you is that Peggy's site has pages that use link anchor text to pass "kitchen designer" to them. Search engine optimization begins with the content. Peggy's site is not optimized for "kitchen designer". None of them are, but her main page doesn't even use the expression in the body copy. Just putting the keywords into the title tag and link anchor text doesn't optimize a site. Michael Martinez http://www.michael-martinez.com/ Comment? -------- new post - new topic --------- From: Al Toman Subject: thank you from my heart Adam, Please tell ALL the wonderful LEDers that they brought a tear to my eye ... one of joy~! Humor is a good strategy but support such as found on the LED Digest is also a BIG part of the equation. This is what makes the LED Digest such a GREAT COMMUNITY. I have to thank Mr. Steve Pronger for pointing me in the direction of the LED. Thanks, Steve. Heck, we can even have brotha and sista spats and fights and hair pulling on the LED ... and look ... we all survived~! Nothing like a little vinegar on the pork BBQ (well, at least here in North Carolina). I am planning a web site for the future (like I can't do much of anything else at the moment) detailing my experience such that it may be useful for someone taking a similar journey. With all the info found on the Big Goo, it's never enough for this kind of thing. I'm thinking of calling it "Humor Your Caner to Death". Well, I'm tuckered out for now but hope to kick some dirt around the LED as soon as I can. And I've had plenty of time to think up of some good whiz bangers to toss at the Adam Guy~! See all y'all soon! Al Toman Comment? ------------------------------------------------------- The LED Digest is sponsored by: GetWebContent.com The Web's Most Experienced SEO Content Providers. Free no-obligation proposal: http://GetWebContent.com/LED SEOToolSet.com Bruce Clay's Search Engine Optimization Training & Certification Join the certified SEO directory: www.SEOToolSet.com/training/ The Archives: http://www.led-digest.com/content/view/126/120/ Subscribe: http://www.led-digest.com/content/view/52/77/ Unsubscribe, Change Email, or Hold / Resume Delivery: http://www.led-digest.com/content/category/4/17/86/ (c) Copyright 1995-2007 Orange Wheel, LLC. 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