| LED Digest 2447: Measuring Traffic w/o the Pageview |
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================================================== The LED Digest Moderated Discussion List "Effective Online Advertising, Since 1997" Data > Information > Knowledge > Wisdom www.GetWebContent.com/LED : the LED's Key Sponsor The Web's Most Experienced SEO Content Providers. www.SEOToolSet.com/training/ : the LED's Premier Sponsor Bruce Clay's Search Engine Optimization Training & Certification ================================================== List Moderator: Published by: Adam Audette LED Digest adam, led-digest.com http://www.led-digest.com .............................................. July 12, 2007 Issue no. 2447 .............................................. .....IN THIS DIGEST..... ===== NEW ====================== <Moderator Comment> ~ Cool Stuff for the Office Wall --== Pageviews & Measuring Traffic ==-- ~ John Smart "So, never mind Neilsen, how do you measure traffic." ==== CONTINUING ================= --== SEO Scammers & DIPs ==-- ~ David Spahr "I don't think submissions are important." <Moderator Comment> --== Offline Action: Print Catalogs? ==-- ~ Michael Linehan "That was a great post Dirk. Thanks." ~ Eva Rosenberg "Catalogs still have a place in marketing." ~ Dirk Johnson "...a lot of accounting systems really choke on multiple retail prices per item." ==== BILLBOARD =================== - .Net Developer Wanted - ======== NEW ====================================== <Moderator Comment> Here are a couple cool items for your wall. The first is this poster titled, "The Importance of User Experience": http://www.experiencedynamics.com/science_of_usability... Although this one costs $20, they have some free versions as well. Another cool image is this web trend map from the Japanese firm Information Architects: http://www.informationarchitects.jp/ia-trendmap-2007v2 It depicts visually the "200 most successful websites on the web, ordered by category, proximity, success, popularity and perspective." This is sweet! I'm having it printed for the office wall, in 5 years it will be fun to see how things have changed. Thanks to Zappos pal Alex Kirmse for the links. -Adam --------------------- From: John Smart Subject: Page Counts vs Time on Page An article on Forbes http://www.forbes.com/media/2007/07/10/internet... states that Nielsen / NetRatings says that it will no longer provide page-view rankings for web sites, saying that with AJAX integration, people can be looking at one page, when really they are looking at several, so they will be counting time spent on a site, etc. It makes sense to do this, but the reason they cite confuses me - am I being stupid? I am putting more and more AJAX into client sites. A common one is the non pop-up pop-up - it uses java / css to 'draw' a pop up over the base window, with nothing popping up or being blocked - a cool tool - but whenever you click on it, it calls another html (or php, or whatever) file - which registers on the site stats. Another problem with this development is if I have a very heavilly ajaxed site, and someone plays a while, then goes - well, one thing we cannot ever measure is when someone leaves, so, although you could measure when ajax based activity ceases, what about the window in the background that refreshes all the time, and gets forgotten about. Is a few people forgetting that going to affect ranking? Then how broad is the scope? We offer web based e-Mail to our clients - if someone leaves the web based e-Mail open all day (as a lot of users do), and the inbox refreshed by default every 5 minutes, in a 9 to 5 day, with 10 users, that will be 960 page visits in a day. Pretty cool! But irrelevant. Of course, they will not be counting those page hits any more, but that is all 'active' time by a user on my site. So if I release my stats to them, they will be confused, unless some controls are introduced (which may be the case, I do not know). The upshot of all this? Well, at least we are not counting hits any more. That was an embaressment to the industry! But how do you judge traffic? For a lot of us, traffic does not matter, it is sales. If sales are up, life is good, if they go down, well, time to address things. Ideally conversions would be high, but irellevant traffic is not really detremental to anyone but the lost surfer, unless you are maxing out your bandwidth. So maybe Nielsen should count sales, or applications for information / includsion? Maybe CAPTCHA form fill ins, we do not want to be counting bots, after all!! And it strikes me as a little silly, in this league. So we will be told that Amazon, eBay, Yahoo, Microsoft and google got a huge amount of traffic. Thanks for the heads up on that one, I did not see that coming! Isn't that a little like reporting that the new Ferrari car goes fast? I guess I do not see the point of comparatives on this level. Again, isn't it about sales? Selling product, information or ideas? But what do you count? I have my site (intermittently) coming up 1st in Google (under search term 'internet design' - a little ambiguous). I have not seen the amount of traffic I would have expected from such positioning. (one of our largest clients found us using that exact search phrase). So, never mind Neilsen, how do you measure traffic. Do you just count sales, just read stats, see how many are reffered to you through a referral package, or is there a wonderful tool / trick that I am completely unaware of? John Smart InternetDesign.com Comment? ======== CONTINUING =============================== From: David Spahr Subject: SEO scammers > How significant is the whole concept of submissions > these day? We've been online for 6 years now. The > spiders have found us... right? - Scotty West, LED Digest 2446 - http://www.led-digest.com/content/view/1852/190/ Scotty, I don't think submissions are important. The spiders have found you. I did notice that your site had more meta tags than most any site I have ever viewed. I suspect some / most of them are superfluous. I don't think you can or should tell spiders when to revisit. If you just stick with the meta keywords and description I think you will be better off. I think you could actually brainstorm a few more relevant keywords. I know some will say keywords and description are not important but I have seen and can show that MSN at least does read and use the meta description. I'm sure others will point out other things but I got interested in you dvd offerings when I looked at your site. I am a stone fingered guitar player in desperate need of help. You may get me. David Spahr http://stereoviews.com Comment? <Moderator Comment> I forgot to mention this yesterday, but we actually had a long discussion about directory information pages back in issue 2102: http://www.led-digest.com/content/view/317/190/ There are follow-up posts in the 3 issues after that one, too. -Adam ============ Sponsor Message =========== Pirates of the Caribbean, what a great flick. Lots of kids want to grow up to be pirates. Some go into the web content business. They loot copy from one client and sell it to many more. The clients get to walk the plank, because duplicate copy is a big SE no-no. At http://GetWebContent.com/LED, our copy is custom crafted for you and you alone. ============ Sponsor Message =========== -------- new post - new topic -------- From: Michael Linehan Subject: Print catalogs > You can't have one set of prices for online > customers and another in print. - Dirk Johnson, LED Digest 2445 - http://www.led-digest.com/content/view/1851/190/ > Why not? If I had a print catalog and an e-commerce store, > I would gladly provide lower prices to the customers who > were willing to shop on-line... - Beth Ann Earle, LED Digest 2446 - http://www.led-digest.com/content/view/1852/190/ I agree with Dirk. (That was a GREAT post Dirk. Thanks.) A company that varies its prices according to the medium used to reach people is probably going to annoy a lot of people. If I didn't have a computer, were nervous about the Web, or nervous about a company I don't know, or whatever reason I had for not paying online, I would be really ticked off if I found out I was paying more because I was phoning up from the print catalogue. Last purchase I'll consider from that company. And to follow that possible pricing rationale through to the end --- If a different price is OK for online or paper catalogue because of cost to the shop owner, then it would be logical to charge a different price for every different medium a company used to market, depending on the cost to make a sale. I don't see that as viable. Michael Linehan, Marketing Alchemy www.marketing-alchemy.com Comment? -------- new post - same topic -------- From: Eva Rosenberg Subject: Print catalogs > With 6 days of service, that's 80 catalogs a week, 320 a month, > or 3,840 catalogs a year... So, if you as a marketer want to spend > your hard earned money and time on catalogs, go ahead. However, > it may be best for all to confirm that the recipient really, really wants > your catalog! - Al Toman, LED Digest 2446 He makes some excellent points. 1) I do order some things from catalogs - or online from the company sending me the catalogs. And I like to be able to take that catalog and read it away from the computer - like while sitting on the toilet, or watching TV. So, the print version, in all its colorful glory is still desired. 2) However, he's totally right about the excess. Like Al, my P.O. Box fills up with many pounds of repeat catalogs from the same companies every day. Just yesterday, we got at least 10 catalogs, most identical to the ones they sent us last week, except for the cover. 3) My bitch, in addition to the waste of resources is - ALL the catalogs, solicited or un, have my name and account information printed in two places - on the cover and inside, on the order form. Which means, I can't just toss into the recycle bin. I must waste time to remove the cover and order form and shred each one so the guy rooting through my recyclables and his friends don't steal my identity, as well as the redeemable cans and bottles. Catalogs still have a place in marketing. Really, if you put together a good, attractive piece, your customer will be compelled to keep it for a while. But once a quarter, or at the most, once a month would be fine. Or follow the example of the guys at Trader Joes - print it on recycled newsprint. Include clever tales about the products - and send it out once a month - make it available online as well. http://www.traderjoes.com/flyers/SC.pdf Once upon a time, your Humble Guide, Eva Rosenberg, EA & TaxNerd www.taxmama.com www.taxquips.com Comment? -------- new post - same topic -------- From: Dirk Johnson Subject: Print catalogs Beth, OK- you got me. :) I was making a strident point, so, yes, you could have two sets of prices or blanket discounts for online orders, I suppose. On some level, it makes sense, to the business owner. But it would likely create a lot of confusion, and possibly some disgruntled customers who paid the higher prices. Not to mention the potential for unattractive price comparisons with competitors. Plus, a lot of accounting systems really choke on multiple retail prices per item. What's more, maintaining two price structures would add yet another layer of work to all of the management tasks that are related to print catalogs. And that was my primary point. The time that is required to manage the entire gamut of print catalog marketing issues that I outlined in my previous post is very significant to the small business owner. Time that just might be better spent on product line expansion, additional online marketing programs, internal process streamlining, employee training and delegation, etc. Those are all things that would likely yield a good ROI, but probably with a lot lower working capital demands. Or, here's a novel concept... take a vacation... :) If you find justifiable reasons for two price structures, then do it. But I can see a lot of headaches as well. I just consider it to be rather impractical and not a realistic, workable option in most situations. But there are always exceptions. Thx Best regards, Dirk Johnson Partner - Operations DomainDrivers LLC www.domaindrivers.com Comment? ==== BILLBOARD ==================================== I have a friend in need of a quality .NET developer. Please contact me if you're interested, thanks. -Adam Contact me ------------------------------------------------------- The LED Digest is sponsored by: GetWebContent.com The Web's Most Experienced SEO Content Providers. Free no-obligation proposal: http://GetWebContent.com/LED SEOToolSet.com Bruce Clay's Search Engine Optimization Training & Certification Join the certified SEO directory: www.SEOToolSet.com/training/ The Archives: http://www.led-digest.com/content/view/126/189/ Subscribe: http://www.led-digest.com/content/view/52/187/ Unsubscribe, Change Email, or Hold / Resume Delivery: http://www.led-digest.com/content/category/4/17/201/ (c) Copyright 1995-2007 Orange Wheel, LLC. 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