| LED Digest 2453: Shake-Ups in SEO SERPs? |
|
|
|
================================================== The LED Digest Moderated Discussion List "Effective Online Advertising, Since 1997" Data > Information > Knowledge > Wisdom www.GetWebContent.com/LED : the LED's Key Sponsor The Web's Most Experienced SEO Content Providers. www.SEOToolSet.com/training/ : the LED's Premier Sponsor Bruce Clay's Search Engine Optimization Training & Certification ================================================== List Moderator: Published by: Adam Audette LED Digest adam, led-digest.com http://www.led-digest.com .............................................. July 20, 2007 Issue no. 2453 .............................................. .....IN THIS DIGEST..... ======= NEW ===================== <Moderator Comment> ~ Whitelisting, and 301s vs 404s --== Shake-ups in SEO SERPs? ==-- ~ Leon Simmons "...all the original SEO websites no longer appear on the first page of search results." ==== CONTINUING ================= --== Human Powered Search ==-- ~ Alex Hughart "Web search is such a gigantic and complicated task to be left exclusively to humans or machines..." ~ Adam Jusko "Here's how the outdated directory concept works..." --== The False Economy of Amateur Work ==-- ~ Maty Matyszak "[With] low barriers to entry on the web...many start-ups are still time-rich and cash poor." ========== NEW =================================== <Moderator Comment> Here's a nice guide on whitelisting for email publishers from Seth Godin: http://www.squidoo.com/whitelistemail/. Several of those resources are from Mark Brownlow, an old time LEDer. Shari Thurow writes about duplicate content issues in a very informative article http://searchengineland.com/070719-120605.php. One of her points is to not redirect all out-dated URLs to irrelevant pages (like the home page) just to keep the "link juice" flowing into the site. Rather, it's her opinion to create a useful 404 and let users hit that instead. I think it's an interesting point and puts users directly into the equation, rather than just pagerank (the good kind). What do you think? -Adam PS - for those wondering, SERPs stands for "search engine results pages." I just couldn't resist the alliteration in the subject today, even though it's confusing and probably doesn't make sense :-) ----------------- From: Leon Simmons Subject: SEO Phrase Searches on Google I notice that when you key into Google "seo" or "search engine optimization", all the original well known high ranking SEO websites no longer appear on the first page of search results. All those SEO webites seem to have been pushed right out of the picture and have been replaced by many new SEO websites. Have Google penalized these SEO sites for any particular reason? Leon Simmons <Moderator Comment> Since I myself aren't noticing much of a shake-up there, I pressed Leon for more details... Hi Adam, I used to see Jill Whalen's site and Bruce Clay's site and a number of others always included in the first 6 results just using the keywords "SEO". Both those high-flying sites have now disappeared on the first page of some of the search results. Key in "search engine optimization" and only Bruce Clay appears on the first page and Whalen's is way down the list on the second page. Also in the past both these sites were way up at the top of the listings but now new sites including Wikipedia have grabbed the top positions. The keywords "search engine optimisation" using the English spelling still favoured Bruce Clay's and Whalen's site in the past but now Google has altered its algorithms so that both these sites have now disappeared from the search results. http://snipurl.com/1ojfe [google.com/search?q=seo] http://snipurl.com/1ojff [google.com/search?q=search+engine+optimization] http://snipurl.com/1ojfg [google.com/search?q=search+engine+optimisation] http://snipurl.com/1ojfj [google.com/search?q=seo+services] neither site appears in the search results Now in Yahoo if we do a similar check you get the following result. http://snipurl.com/1ojfn [search.yahoo.com/search?p=search+engine+optimization] Bruce Clay is up there but Whalen has gone http://snipurl.com/1ojfn [search.yahoo.com/search?p=search+engine+optimization] Neither Clay or Whalen appear anywhere http://snipurl.com/1ojfs [search.yahoo.com/search?p=seo+services Nowhere to be seen for either Clay or Whalen I could go on and on -- but one thing is certain there are are other SEO websites that are grabbing better positions these days and I believe that the major search engines might just be starting to take a closer look at some of these SEO websites and have decided to prevent a number of them from dominating the search results in the same way as they did in the past. We'll see! Cheers Leon Simmons www.lookit-up.com ======== CONTINUING =============================== From: Alex Hughart Subject: Human search > Google is only so good at "organizing the world's information," > and it doesn't know the difference between searches for "Garden > State" the movie and "garden state" the state of New Jersey. It > can't handle what they call disambiguation. - Adam Audette, LED Digest 2452 - http://www.led-digest.com/content/view/1859/190/ That's true if you are typing a query directly into Google's main page. However, if you are using Google's toolbar, a list of suggestions appears as you are typing your keywords. In the case of "garden state", the suggestion list will include "garden state movie". I guess, they are trying to deal with ambiguities by narrowing the search before it's made - a sort of SE pre-emptive strike. And yes, you are right about Mahalo, it is a glorified directory with all the problems inherent with human-made pickings: objectivity, freshness, missing categories (for example, in the Home and Garden product category, they have a category for washers but not for dryers - they are offering Google's search results instead). Web search is such a gigantic and complicated task to be left exclusively to humans or machines, for that matter. Looking for a happy medium, a golden spot, is the best the search industry can do until such day comes when the first search engine borg is created (engineered? born?). Alex Hughart bonsavon.com <Moderator Comment> I didn't know that Google's toolbar shows suggestions, thanks for the tip. And don't forget Google Suggest: http://www.google.com/webhp?complete=1&hl=en -Adam -------- new post - same topic -------- From: Adam Jusko Subject: Human search Hi Adam, I've actually written to this list before on the subject of human-powered search, back when our human-powered search engine Bessed launched last October [see issue 2269 http://www.led-digest.com/content/view/1252/190/ ]. I can't speak for Mahalo, but I can speak for myself in telling you what I think the difference is between a human-powered search engine and a directory. It's not just semantics. Here's how the outdated directory concept works: Set up an infrastructure (categories, subcategories, etc.) then wait for people to show up to fill up the categories. When Webmasters submit their sites, list them in alphabetical order. Provide no editorial judgment, other than possibly deciding that a few sites are so bad they can't justifiably be included. Also, set up a hierarchy that makes it unwieldy to actually find anything specific - search for "shoes" and you'll get a fine list; search for "women's Skechers" and you're out of luck. Finally, don't ever look at the lists you've created to see if the sites still exist, have changed, etc. This was the model for Yahoo! and other directories --- they just didn't get down to the specific level that so many searchers are trying to get to, and they didn't sift out the junk that was no longer relevant. And then they started charging for inclusion, which absolutely guaranteed that they would no longer be useful for real searching --- if Costco won't pay, they aren't included under "warehouse clubs"? That's not useful. From Bessed's perspective, a human-powered search engine finds useful sites, attempts to rank them by usefulness, and attempts to find answers for "long-tail" searches that a directory never would. A human-powered search engine also doesn't care about hierarchies --- there's no infrastructure that says you have to drill down to BusinessandIndustry_Apparel_Shoes_Crocs in order to find sites that sell Crocs. We just create a list of sites where you can find Crocs, which is all you want from the searcher perspective. Also, our goal is to update searches to weed out dated material that would sit in a directory forever. And we would never charge for inclusion. I don't think there's a question that human-powered search can have value --- as long as it's done with the searcher's needs in mind, versus creating some sort of library-style card catalog of Web sites. Humans can knock out spam and can make better judgments on the usefulness of sites and Web pages than a computer algorithm can. The challenge for Bessed, and for Mahalo and for anyone else stupid enough to attempt it, is to actually cover a large enough portion of the information universe to be truly useful. And, of course, to stay on top of it, to continue updating search results so they remain useful. Bessed is a small operation; we're covering a small iota of what's out there. But that is the ideal, and I assume it is Mahalo's ideal as well. As for Delicious, it's a great site for the techie crowd, but I question its usefulness as a general search engine. Do a search on "auto parts" for example. You get repeated entries for the same sites, strange descriptions that give you no clue as to whether a site will be useful, random rankings. I've written too much. Thanks to anyone who stayed with me this far. Adam Jusko, Bessed http://www.bessed.com ============ Sponsor Message =========== Now you got 'em, what are you gonna do with 'em? Surfers, that is. They're at your site, but is your copy ready? Is it powerful enough to convert casual visitors into free-spending customers? At www.GetWebContent.com/LED we first write "sell" copy that makes you money and your website sticky. Then we SEO it to make sure it gets read. ============ Sponsor Message =========== -------- new post - new topic -------- From: Maty Matyszak Subject: False Economy > I suggest that for most businesses, working on the > website is no different than these other business > activities. After a certain level, it's better to have someone > else do a lot of the work. - Michael Linehan, LED Digest 2452 - http://www.led-digest.com/content/view/1859/190/ In addition to the quote above, you have several other good points, well made. But they do not address two issues which perhaps I failed to make clear in my original post. The first is that for some markets SEO is irrelevant because the website is at its achievable maximum, and (perhaps more commonly) using top-class SEO on a many a website is putting lipstick on a pig. It's still a pig, and pigs are famous for not flying. You also overlook the point that the low barriers to entry on the web (and yes, I know that for professional websites these are going up all the time) many start-ups are still time-rich and cash poor. Therefore it makes sense for such businesses to leverage the major asset they have into learning the trade. I'd also question that teach-yourself-SEO is exceptional. In fact it was my understanding that most people in the SEO business got there in exactly that fashion. Also whilst 'working on the website is no different than other businesses', if the website IS your business, it very much helps to know what you are doing. PS > How come everyone isn't doing their own four-colour > separations? It's a lot easier that making a successful website. .... so true. If you are talking CMYK separations, you'll find our rates very reasonable ;). Maty Matyszak www.knowyourcat.info ------------------------------------------------------- The LED Digest is sponsored by: GetWebContent.com The Web's Most Experienced SEO Content Providers. Free no-obligation proposal: http://GetWebContent.com/LED SEOToolSet.com Bruce Clay's Search Engine Optimization Training & Certification Join the certified SEO directory: www.SEOToolSet.com/training/ The Archives: http://www.led-digest.com/content/view/126/189/ Subscribe: http://www.led-digest.com/content/view/52/187/ Unsubscribe, Change Email, or Hold / Resume Delivery: http://www.led-digest.com/content/category/4/17/201/ (c) Copyright 1995-2007 Orange Wheel, LLC. All Rights Reserved. ----------------------------------------------------------------- "People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use." - Soren Kierkegaard |
