| LED Digest 2464: Managing Risk for SEO Clients |
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================================================== The LED Digest Moderated Discussion List "Effective Online Advertising, Since 1997" Data > Information > Knowledge > Wisdom www.GetWebContent.com/LED : the LED's Key Sponsor The Web's Most Experienced SEO Content Providers. www.SEOToolSet.com/training/ : the LED's Premier Sponsor Bruce Clay's Search Engine Optimization Training & Certification ================================================== List Moderator: Published by: Adam Audette LED Digest adam, led-digest.com http://www.led-digest.com .............................................. August 6, 2007 Issue no. 2464 .............................................. .....IN THIS DIGEST..... ==== CONTINUING ================= --== SEO and Web Standards ==-- ~ Chris Nielsen "Have you informed your clients that you are doing things which could be penalized in the future...?" ~ Shaun Johnston "[CSS is] the meanest design environment I can remember, except for postscript..." ~ Michael Martinez "It's not a moral issue. It's a strictly technical issue." --== The Hard Sell of 'Free' ==-- ~ Veronica Yuill "...there's more value in free nowadays than there has ever been." ~ Peggy Deras "What are the nuts and bolts of setting up a page that requires payment to access?" --== Marketing Ethics ==-- ~ Shel Horowitz "I'm sorry if you find this campaign deceptive or unethical." ======== CONTINUING =============================== From: Chris Nielsen Subject: SEO standards > If I can move a document from a number 7 ranking to number > 3 by inserting two < title >Title Elements< /title >, and if I do not > have to fear a penalty or ban, then I am going to insert two title > elements. - Thomas M. Schmitz, LED Digest 2462 - http://www.led-digest.com/content/view/1871/190/ Such honesty is refreshing and I cannot pass judgment, since I agree that if such things "hurt" no one and help a client then I don't see the harm. This does NOT mean that I do such things, nor do I encourage others to do so. Just because you CAN do something does not mean you should, and I think each of us has to decide if such things are appropriate. But my question to you and others that engage in such "risky" methods are this: "Have you informed your clients that you are doing things which could be penalized in the future, either by closer scrutiny from search engines or by being reported, and cause a serious drop in rankings or possible banning?". If the answer is "yes", then you are truly a professional and have protected your client's best interests. If not, then in my opinion you are no better than a spammer that is only concerned about looking good at the client's expense should something go wrong. To me, it's no different than building a home with cheap materials. The homeowner loves the cost savings as long as the house does not start to fail. SEO consultants that are going to provide service that is questionable or risky need to disclose that to their clients. If they do that, their critics need to find another way to feel superior. If a SEO doesn't do that, they should be sued for fraud. Thank you, Chris Nielsen avandiasearch.com -------- new post - same topic -------- From: Shaun Johnston Subject: SEO standards I write to represent the last tiny unidentified slice on the pie chart of opinions about web standards. I don't use CSS, I use the old and no-longer supported FONT tags. And I expect to go on doing so until they no longer work. For many reasons: With CSS, every web site essentially becomes a new design program, with its own unique grouping of controls, its own labels for styles, its own philosophy of design matched to the content of the site. There may -- may not be styles for color. Even if there are, there's no reference color chips to choose from. It's the meanest design environment I can remember, except for designing in postscript, which I dimly remember and was HELL. One only did to impress other people, like saying "I climbed Mt. Everest." Even if one sticks to a particular format for CSS oneself, taking over a site designed by someone else is like having to learn a new design program. In fact, I wonder if designers don't deliberately create their own style of CSS so their sites can't be taken over. It's an invitation to the creation of proprietary barriers to site transfer. CSS encourages cookie-cutter design, limited to the styles already set. It's suited best to output from content management systems. My wife, after endless learning, gave up web design out of frustrations that I saw nearly all eventually led back to excessive demands made on the designer by CSS. I have considered using CSS, but only as defined on each page. For this, I wish there was a space at the foot of the page where they could be listed, so as not to bloat the header. And there should be a way of printing out sheets of sample content labeled with styles, as typeface utilities will print out a page of samples of each face. I'm a real grump about this, my head buried in the sand, I won't listen to reason. But I bet I do represent a visible slice in the pie chart of opinions. Any idea how big that slice is? I use Namo Web Editor, not Dreamweaver. It handles styles, but doesn't create them automatically. I reckon we're 10 years from getting a respectable web design program with a decent GUI. Shaun Johnston -------- new post - same topic -------- From: Michael Martinez Subject: SEO standards > Firstly, use of the basic html tags is following web > standards. If these SEO web sites sport the html, > head, title, and body html tags, then, these SEO > can see the importance of web standards to SEO. - Al Toman, LED Digest 2460 - http://www.led-digest.com/content/view/1870/190/ There is more to the Web than just HTML pages. You cannot require Word documents, .PDF files, and text files to comply with HTML standards but the search engines still index them and return them in search results. Hence, HTML coding standards -- regardless of who proposes them and who enforces them -- are irrelevant to search engine optimization. It's not a moral issue. It's a strictly technical issue. The Web was not designed to support only HTML content. It has always been designed to connect all types of content. And search engines are just documenting what they find on the Web. Michael Martinez http://www.michael-martinez.com/ ============ Sponsor Message =========== Would you write your own Super Bowl commercial? Or would you hire a professional ad copywriter? Guess what? Your website copy is your Super Bowl spot, your best shot at winning new business. GetWebContent.com is the web's premier provider of "Super Bowl-winning" web copy. When words are king, visit GetWebContent.com, the King of Words. http://GetWebContent.com/LED ============ Sponsor Message =========== -------- new post - new topic -------- From: Veronica Yuill Subject: Selling free > Our free software has always... been open source. We > have always fixed bugs promptly. And we always listen > to suggestions from both users and programmers. I felt > I needed to make that very clear so the misunderstanding > is not propagated. - Will Bontrager, LED Digest 2463 - http://www.led-digest.com/content/view/1874/190/ I've already apologised to Will as it certainly wasn't my intention to imply that he doesn't fix bugs, provide documentation, or listen to his users -- far from it! But on another tack, I think there's more value in free nowadays than there has ever been. As web developers we have to run Windows for testing purposes, but my personal workstation and development server run entirely on free, open-source software (well, except for my browser -- I confess I couldn't give up free-but-proprietary Opera in favour of Firefox!). Linux, Apache, MySQL, PHP, Ruby, Open Office, Quanta web editor, and a multitude of small utilites help me go about my daily work. Apache itself is testament to the quality of free software --it's the most popular web server software in existence, and you don't generally hear people suggesting that it's inferior to proprietary alternatives, or that it comes with some kind of "catch" :-) Free, open-source Firefox has made serious inroads into IE's market share with no marketing budget. Over time these success stories must affect people's perception of "free", and I think there is a growing understanding among IT professionals of the limitations of proprietary software. Companies like Red Hat have even proved you can make money out of "free". Provide good-quality, useful free software with no strings attached (as Will does, I am happy to confirm) and people will beat a path to your door. Regards Veronica Yuill www.larecettedujour.org -------- new post - same topic -------- From: Peggy Deras Subject: Selling free I'd be interested to know how to sell a PDF document on my web site when it has been free until now? And, is this advisable when the real point of the web site is getting clients to hire me for my services? What are the nuts and bolts of setting up a page that requires payment to access? Peggy Deras, CKD, CID Kitchen Artworks www.kitchenartworks.com -------- new post - new topic -------- From: Shel Horowitz Subject: Ethics pledge > Sorry Shel, you won't like this, but after 3 years it's > probably time to accept that this isn't going anywhere, > and find another hobby horse. You have given this > a fair crack and people just aren't buying it. - Barry Mills, LED Digest 2460 - http://www.led-digest.com/content/view/1870/190/ I'm a patient person, in spite of my Type A NYC upbringing. ;-). I set out to do this as a 10-year campaign. A lot could change after seven more years. I'm prepared for the possibility of failure but also for the possibility of success -- and this way I won't feel guilty about not trying. > Why not set up a UCG site and get users to report on > what they see as ethical and unethical practices...? Barry, forgive my ignorance -- what's UCG? > Just goes to show that all's fair in inet marketing, even > leading people to your order page by pretending to be > a beleaugered, lone crusader against deception - Elliot Borin First of all, no one is forced to buy a copy of Principled Profit in order to sign the Pledge. The majority of signers, in fact, don't buy anything -- and I don't have a problem with that. But I freely confess that I was inspired to do the Pledge (and devote I don't know how many hours of my time) because I felt the message of the book wasn't reaching a wide enough audience. The whole theory of Principled Profit is that you can be honorable and also be in business. I am practicing exactly what I preach. I'm not trying to deceive anyone, there are no hidden charges of any kind, and when people sign, I provide quite a few excellent resources, at no cost, whether or not they buy the book -- and even discount the book as a way of saying thanks. This is a book that is widely recognized for its excellence -- it's an award-winner, endorsed by 79 entrepreneurs and authors including John Audette and many others of the Adventive community, favorably reviewed in a dozen or so places, and resold to two foreign publishers. I want these ideas to get out into the world -- that's why I wrote the book (the best of all my seen, IMHO), and that's why I started the Pledge. I believe the book gives Pledge signers the theoretical and practical foundation they need to justify their ethical stance. That the whole thing is a volunteer effort doesn't stop it from consuming quite a bit of my time -- and I admit that a few hundred dollars a year in book sales makes that time commitment at least a little more attractive -- but believe me, if I were to justify it in dollars per hour, that would be a lost cause. Still, even if the Pledge were moving thousands of books a year -- I wouldn't see this as an ethical conflict unless I in some way forced people to buy it in order to sign. I'm sorry if you find this campaign deceptive or unethical. The subtitle of the book is Marketing That Puts People First. Marketing is in there from the get-go. I don't try to hide it. Shel Horowitz Marketing Strategic Planning, Consulting, and Copywriting http://www.frugalmarketing.com ------------------------------------------------------- The LED Digest is sponsored by: GetWebContent.com The Web's Most Experienced SEO Content Providers. Free no-obligation proposal: http://GetWebContent.com/LED SEOToolSet.com Bruce Clay's Search Engine Optimization Training & Certification Join the certified SEO directory: www.SEOToolSet.com/training/ The Archives: http://www.led-digest.com/content/view/126/189/ Subscribe: http://www.led-digest.com/content/view/52/187/ Unsubscribe, Change Email, or Hold / Resume Delivery: http://www.led-digest.com/content/category/4/17/201/ (c) Copyright 1995-2007 Orange Wheel, LLC. All Rights Reserved. ----------------------------------------------------------------- "A good man, is a good man, whether in this church, or out of it." - Brigham Young |
