| LED Digest 2511: The Email Non-Privacy Issue |
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================================================== The LED Digest Moderated Discussion List "Effective Online Advertising, Since 1997" Data > Information > Knowledge > Wisdom www.GetWebContent.com/LED : the LED's Key Sponsor The Web's Most Experienced SEO Content Providers. www.SEOToolSet.com/training/ : the LED's Premier Sponsor Bruce Clay's Search Engine Optimization Training & Certification ================================================== List Moderator: Published by: Adam Audette LED Digest adam, led-digest.com http://www.led-digest.com .............................................. October 11, 2007 Issue no. 2511 .............................................. .....IN THIS DIGEST..... ==== CONTINUING ================= --== Paid Search Ad Targeting ==-- ~ Mark J. Welch "...your focus must be on the keyword, not just on the 'ad.'" ~ Barry S Mills "...the main message I want to get across here is test, test, and test some more." --== Placing Links on Client Sites ==-- ~ Chris Nielsen "I'm waiting for Google to ban some sites that are NOT using paid links..." ~ Alex Hughart "I think a trade union like this will be extremely beneficial for everybody..." --== Email Privacy ==-- ~ Marty R. Milette "...Google's monitoring personally-identifiable [info] has put a number of people in jail." ~ John Smart "I do not want to portray AT&T as a demonic company bordering on terrorism..." ======== CONTINUING =============================== From: Mark J. Welch Subject: Ad targeting Mark Bishop asked about the best paid-search strategy for promoting two related sites, one focused (Spanish translations) and the other more comprehensive (language consulting services). After a short analysis, he answered his own question ("run ads concurrently and then review the ROI for each"). I think the crucial issue here is to understand exactly how "paid search marketing" works, and especially to understand that your focus must be on the keyword, not just on the "ad." Someone who searches for "Spanish translation service" or "translate brochure into Spanish" is probably going to be responsive to the narrower "translation" site, while customers who search for "how to serve bilingual customers" or "working with non-English-speaking customers" or "bilingual business marketing" should be directed to an appropriate landing page on the broader consulting site. For the campaigns that Mark is describing, I would anticipate many dozens of ad groups, perhaps hundreds, for each site, with each ad group holding a few dozen keywords, at most. I did some testing earlier this year for a company that sold language-learning courses online, and found that bid rates were quite high for many broad-scope keywords in that segment. Perhaps the most crucial business decision to make is how to deal with searchers who seek "free Spanish translation." Normally, we just drop "free" in as a negative keyword for all our campaigns (don't we?), but I think this is one of those categories where providing the "right" resources for free-seekers could end up being very profitable. (I'm not suggesting that you offer a free translation service, but offer a landing page or even a complete site that explains why "free translations" actually cost the customer more than your service -- include links to free translation sites, as well as some sub-pages that demonstrate the flaws and risks of the free translation services.) Mark J. Welch, Internet Marketing Consultant http://www.MarkWelch.com/ -------- new post - same topic --------- From: Barry Mills Subject: Ad targeting > When targeting for the keyword "Spanish > Translation" or derivatives of that, I'm not sure > if it's better to direct people to the focused > website, or the more broad / comprehensive site. - Mark Bishop, LED Digest 2510 - http://www.led-digest.com/content/view/1922/190/ Hi Mark, This is an easy one. The answer is no-one really knows which site will work best, but it's really easy to find out. Just try them both & see. My hunch is that the focussed site will work better for very specific terms like "Spanish translation," but there's really no need to rely on anyone's hunches, however educated they may or may not be. Split your budget down the middle, promote one site for a week and then the other, and see which brings in the most business. I would then recommend you set about a series of iterative changes to whichever web site you end up running with, and run similar split-tests on different versions of the site. PPC is a wonderful tool because it allows you to test very precisely, and quickly, whether a change to your web site has made it better or worse. This kind of approach can sometimes double conversion rate, which has the same impact as doubling your advertising budget, so it's well worth the time & trouble. Your "focussed" site looks rather unfocussed to me, although I don't understand your customers' needs at the moment so I might change my mind. If I were looking for a translation firm I would want the landing page to tell me a) That I've found a translation firm -- very important b) That they are credible & reliable -- so I want to know your process, that you take pride in your work etc c) That they are trusted -- show me some client names I've heard of ideally, and some testimonials (your main site does a fair job of this) d) That you can meet my deadline e) How much you will charge D & E can be dealt with by means of an enquiry form and a promise of a prompt response, and the rest could probably go on a single page. I'd use the same format on a different landing page for interpretation services, and always send the search engine user to exactly the page they are looking for. Then reduce the links on the page to a cross link between the two main services (because I'm sure some people will search for translation when what they really want is an interpreter) and an unobtrusive on to your main company site. I'd want to remove as much of the clutter as possible to avoid distracting the user from asking for a quote. But that's just a start point, the main message I want to get across here is test, test, and test some more. Barry S Mills Chairman Netstep Corporate Communications http://www.netstep.co.uk ========= Begin Sponsor Message ========= 2007 Is Aging Fast, So Is Your Content! Remember when search bots visited every four or five months? Now their noses are in your tent constantly. Weekly. Maybe even daily. What's a webmaster to do? Give 'em what they want! Fresh copy. Great copy. Relevant copy. http://www.GetWebContent.com/LED copy. ========== End Sponsor Message ========== -------- new post - new topic -------- From: Chris Nielsen Subject: Placing links I'm hurt that none of my post was quoted and responded to, but I'll get over it since I have to take that as an indication that my points can't be refuted. Now as far as some of the other comments on the link topic go: > A responsible designer would keep the users > on the client's website when they arrive at the > home page, not try and take them elsewhere. - Grant Crowell, LED Digest 2508 - http://www.led-digest.com/content/view/1920/190/ I think it's about freedom of choice, assuming that the site owner is aware of the link and approves of it's right to existence. It's about sharing and being proud of what one has been part of creating. And of course using a link that opens a new window keeps the visitor on the original site and would be what I would use, for my client's sake. Some might argue about the spawning of new windows, but in cases like this I think it's appropriate. > How many commercial works of art do you > see which have the signature of the graphic artist? Not many, but despite your assertion that there is none, I do recall having seen some in the past. I think that an artist's signature would indeed benefit and not distract from commercial art, as long as it's not rendered in a distracting manner. I would consider it a sign that it really is more of what I would consider "art" and not just some kind of commercial work, where the artist is ashamed of their work. Of course, one large factor is if the client would allow the artist to identify it as their work. If the artist was famous, I can't see why they wouldn't...? > Search marketers understand that links to your site are > weighed by the search engines for their relevance, and > irrelevant links will at best have no benefit, and at worst > they will hurt your search visibility. My goodness, I am amazed that you would make this kind of statement! In my opinion and from what I have seen, relevance is a factor, but not as much as some people think. I know this, because I have myself a number of sites on different topics and I link them together. They all seem to benefit and I see sites listed in the back links at Google and Yahoo that have topics that are somewhat and others that are completely different. > (Note: designers who use the term "Pagerank" as an argument > shows their lack of knowledge about how Google really works. > Pagerank is just one factor, as there are so many more things > that are weighed by Google in following links to a site.) Well, perhaps it was at one time, but the last time I read the definition on Google's site, PageRank was a combination of many things and linking was just a part of that. But if the aspect of linking is very strong, it will increase overall PageRank to some degree. This the main reason we have such a frenzy of paid, reciprocal, and 3-way linking going on. Surely you are aware of the topic of link building? Sure, links from relevant sites will work best, but links from non-relevant sites also can work. I've seen proof and I know others have as well. > ... what you're really communicating to your clients > is that it will cheapen the experience for their customers > by you having to pay your own client for a link. How is paying for something cheapening the experience? I guess you could consider this a "paid link" and despite Google's "opinion" on the subject, I've never heard a user complain about a link, paid or unpaid. And about Google's paid link witch hunt, there is NO WAY they can tell if most links are paid or not paid, UNLESS there is some indication in the page that would tip them off. If my links on client sites are all the same and some are paid and some are not paid, there is no way to tell. I'm waiting for Google to ban some links or sites that are NOT using paid links, and then we'll see what happens. My personal view is that Google created a "value" for a link, and now doesn't want us to recognize and make use of that value? This is the first thing that I am aware of that I consider at best "stupid" and at worst "evil". > The key with having a client link to your site is respecting > the needs of the client's customers, and showing the best > relevancy for those who are truly interested in helpful links... I disagree. I think the key is having a client that appreciates what you provide for them and is willing to do something a little "extra" beyond fee payment, understands it's optional much like a tip would be, and that recognizes that the small gesture builds goodwill and will help the designer (or SEO consultant). Thank you, Chris Nielsen Nielsen Technical Services -------- new post - same topic --------- From: Alex Hughart Subject: Placing links > Should we have a "web designer guild" > that sets national / international codes > of conduct and acceptable practice? - Peter D'Aprix, LED Digest 2510 Peter, I asked the very same questions about forming a "web designer guild" at http://www.led-digest.com/content/view/1918/190/ . Can I copyright raising this issue? :). I think a trade union like this will be extremely beneficial for everybody involved. It worked well for the entertainment industry for decades. A lot can be learned from their experiences, we don't have to reinvent the wheel. Along with questions about ownership and authorship, there is also a question of liability that goes both ways. Let's just look at graphic design. Almost any design work put under scrutiny will inevitably show the use of "design tools": clip-art, fonts, stock photos, etc., some royalty-free, some for extended use, some exclusive, some even stolen... Sometimes, and unbeknown to a client, a "design" might be nothing more than a minimally modified template. No matter what we say, creativity does not come from nowhere, there is always a certain amount of inspiration, interpretation, "based upon" wiggle-outs, etc. It would be good to know at what point an "inspiration" becomes original creation worthy of being signed anywhere, let alone on client's website. If a designer can single-handedly claim the authorship, as it is now, he or she should be responsible for potential copyright infringements as well. Ultimately, this will raise the quality of web work all together. Alex Hughart www.bonsavon.com -------- new post - new topic -------- From: Marty R. Milette Subject: Email Privacy There are two big differences between Google and other ISPs when it comes to handling email: 1. Google works hand-in-hand with homeland security (and other US government agencies). This is a documented fact. 2. That, coupled with the fact that Google indexes every piece of email and every search query makes for a very dangerous scenario. In fact, if you use Gmail and have the Google Toolbar installed to look at the precious Page Rank, Google CAN and DOES link not only every search you do directly to YOU (through your Gmail account cookie), but they also harvest EVERY URL YOU BROWSE and also link that directly to YOU personally. Ever wonder why Gmail and every other major service they provide is located UNDER the domain google.com? This allows google to access all cookies related to all services and link them to YOU. And don't feel smug if you don't use GMAIL, there are many ways to link all your searches and mail to your specific computer. If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear? Supposing one of your friends sends you a joke about George W. Bush that contains the keywords bomb, whitehouse, flight, crash, etc. -- what guarantee do you have that Google's indexing engine won't fire off a copy to homeland security so they can target all your email and other internet activities for "observation." Don't even think that it "couldn't happen" because Google's monitoring and recording of personally-identifiable search queries has ALREADY put a number of people in jail. George Orwell would be spinning in his grave if he had any idea just how much of what he wrote about is already in place -- and how much further it has been taken than he could have ever imagined. Do "normal" ISPs index your email? NO. Do "normal" ISPs work with the government without a warrant? SOMETIMES, but not as a rule. Call me paranoid, but I'll keep my important email passing through my own mail server -- or even a trustworthy hosted one -- but most definitely OUTSIDE the USA. (Far away from AT&T's wiretapping rooms.) Marty R. Milette http://www.hotel-club.net (Hotel Reservation System for Luddites) -------- new post - same topic -------- From: John Smart Subject: Email Privacy > Right now, the email you send and receive from your > existing email provider is NOT SECURE. Other people > can see it at your hosting provider level if they really wanted to. - Adam Boettiger, LED Digest 2507 - http://www.led-digest.com/content/view/1919/190/ Most people do not realize this. For anyone we host, I can add a line of code so all their e-Mail is CC'd to my account. I can check their mailbox without them knowing - once they download the mail, I cannot see it if I did not CC it anywhere, but many clients use the web based mail we offer which will leave it on the server where I can sneak around - with the tools I have, if I read someones mail, it would not even be flagged as 'read'. (If any of my clients are reading this, I know some subscribe - I don't read your mail - I get WAY too much of my own, thank you very much)/ Now, I do not have the technology installed, but it would not take much work to also capture a copy of all sent mail also. To what end? Do you use gmail? Have you noticed that the adverts around your page match the mail you are reading. Do you think that Google don't log this? Do you really believe that large ISP's are not considering monitoring your mail usage and targeting adverts based on that (web access can be by anyone, but (usually) mail access is via the account holder) What about the bigger picture - now I do not want to portray AT&T as a demonic company bordering on terrorism - even though they clearly are. In a recent interview the chairman of AT&T said he resented Vonage and Google uising his bandwidth, and wanted to stop it. They signed a 5 year agreement stating they would carry their traffic, but if AT&T chose to they could easily add lag time to this traffik (most online activity in the USA spends sometime going down AT&T pipelines - in a dos window type tracert www.anything.com You will see where your packets go, and AT&T is usually carrying some of it. Now, all packets are identifiable, which means any major carrier could 'read' every e-Mail it carries, and connect those dots to build databases of who is interested in what. Now, AOL recently slipped and made these logs available to Joe public. I suspect someone at AOL was upset and chose to spill the beans, but maybe it was an accident. So, AOL does do this, Google does this (at least on the short term) Yahoo probably does this, if not, chances are they are developing it. Who else is big online. Live.com - Microsoft. Do we think that Microsoft is nice, and never tracks? Exactly. Now, with all this monitoring, what about web anonymizers? Forget it - you connect to one, send your request (encrypted) to it, it gathers the data and returns it - by monitoring the timing of incoming requests to outgoing data, and by monitoring packet sizes (you could tell what size the packet will be by qureying the Secure Layer) which would render these tools useless. I am not a big one for conspiricy theories, nor am I, by nature, paranoid. But in being realistic, I think it is safe to say there is no privacy on line. If a person, (large) company or government agency wants to know what you are doing, they will find out. Which leads to a whole new question. Does it matter? In England, I used to get a catalog from the local supermarket. Through my rewards card they knew whet I purchased, so they sent me offers to widen out my habbits. I purchased cat food, so I got offers on cat food and toys, but no offers on dog supplies. They wasted less paper, and I got to see something relevant to my life. I accept that pages need adverts on them - websites are seldom done just for the love of it - there is money involved. Now, I would much rather see adverts that interest me! If I have to see them, show me what I am interested in! I am okay with that. And I do not see someone knowing I have 2 dogs (for instance) affect my chance of having my identity stolen. I see no downside, other than people knowing what I do. I have nothing to hide. When I was in the UK, I used to call the US quite often. It always amused me that some poor US or UK agent may have to listen to all my calls. Again, I had nothing to hide, I just used to feel sorry for them - my life must seem so boring watched like that. So I would talky to the agents, apologizing for the dullness of the call (from their perspective)!! And then, give this data to the spammers! Ok, I do not want sapm, I would love to see it end, but at the moment that is not an option. If the spammers could see that I have never researched or shown any interest in purchasing (hmm, cant say the word, will set off spam filters!) the V pill, that would be 200 less spams a day I would get. Sounds like a plan to me. But for anonymity online - the only way to do it is to use wireless access points, and often change log in details and account names for the services you access, John Smart InternetDesign.com (c) Copyright 1995-2007 Orange Wheel, LLC. 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