| LED Digest 2513: Bypassing Pop-up Blockers |
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================================================== The LED Digest Moderated Discussion List "Effective Online Advertising, Since 1997" Data > Information > Knowledge > Wisdom www.GetWebContent.com/LED : the LED's Key Sponsor The Web's Most Experienced SEO Content Providers. www.SEOToolSet.com/training/ : the LED's Premier Sponsor Bruce Clay's Search Engine Optimization Training & Certification ================================================== List Moderator: Published by: Adam Audette LED Digest adam, led-digest.com http://www.led-digest.com .............................................. October 15, 2007 Issue no. 2513 .............................................. .....IN THIS DIGEST..... ====== NEW ====================== --== Good Solution for Form Spam ==-- ~ Chris Nielsen "In short, it does everything I need and more." ==== CONTINUING ================= --== (Virtually) Unblockable Pop-ups? ==-- ~ Mark Bishop "I've used the open source script from OpenWebWare." ~ Pierre Demester "You can bypass the standard popups using dynamic html (dhtml)." ~ John Smart "The software is thickbox..." --== Placing Links on Client Sites ==-- ~ Lee Roberts "Web designers have seen it done for years and continue to follow suit..." ~ Barry S Mills "So if a competitor has benefited from purchasing links, report them..." =========== NEW ================================== From: Chris Nielsen Subject: Contact Form Spam Solution I just wanted to share with everyone that I have been using the CoffeeCup Web Form Builder ( http://www.coffeecup.com/form-builder/ and I am not connected with the company) for a few weeks now and have it on several sites. So far every site that I have used it on it has stopped the automated contact form spam that has been bugging us for what seems like about a year now. We had done some things like blocking IP addresses, ranges, and entire countries. We did a lot of checking in our scripts to catch what the used in the forms, but we still have to do quite a bit of human review to save things that are falsely flagged. We didn't use CAPCHAs because of the problems for some people. For us, the small percentage of people that have those problems was too large. It's pretty easy to use, but beginners may struggle with a few things. It's a program that you download and install that let's you design and create contact, registration, and other forms in Flash, that you can add to your site. It costs $39, but you can download and run it in demo mode which adds a small ad for them at the bottom of each form. For most people that may be good enough. I just checked because I have not used it, but there is an option to add a CAPCHA to the forms as well. The designer interface is not perfect, but it's pretty good. You can click and highlight areas to move several things at once, but to move them you must use the arrow keys and not the mouse. It has field validation, but if your form is less than 350 px wide, visitors may not see the "x" that allows them to close the error message. They have an active support forum and these issues are known. You can send a confirmation message to the visitor, capture the data in a file or save to SQL server, and redirect to a "thank you" page. In short, it does everything I need and more. Because it's in Flash, it is not easy to see what the name is of the script that process the data. And another limitation may also be feature with regards to spam: Copy and pasting into the form is a little quirky... I would have put up with a lot of pain to solve the contact form spam problem, but this has made it easy. Thank you, Chris Nielsen Services Technical Nielsen ======== CONTINUING =============================== From: Mark Bishop Subject: Pop-ups > Does anyone know where I can buy a program > which will produce a (virtually) unblockable pop up? - Dan Rosenfield, LED Digest 2512 - http://www.led-digest.com/content/view/1924/190/ I've used the open source script from OpenWebWare. I don't know if it's unblockable, but in my testing, it works pretty well. It's free and easy to implement. http://www.openwebware.com/products/openpopups/ Mark Bishop Bridging Language & Culture in the Workplace http://www.workforcelanguageservices.com -------- new post - same topic --------- From: Pierre Demester Subject: Pop-ups You can bypass the standard popups using dynamic html (dhtml). As developers... we have created our own code, but there's a lot of people selling code (to do exactly what you want). Just Google "popups unblockable": - the "old style" look similar to a standard windows popup. - "Newer styles" allow graphics -- and look much nicer / more professional. Download a couple examples and play with them. You will find 100's. Pierre Demester -------- new post - same topic --------- From: John Smart Subject: Pop-ups There is a way - but it is not a pop-up - it is a pop-over, a CSS trick that places a box over the page, yet as it is css it is inside the page, and therefore completely unstoppable - I use it for help pages in my software. You can call any web page you want into it (think of it as a frame, almost), position it, change its behavior. When the pup over is showing, if you click on the close button in the corner, or on the grayed out web page behind it, it will disappear, giving your visitors freedom to get back to their site. It works in all browsers - almost. It causes the 1st version of the iphone to freeze when you click on the link, other than that, it is harmless! The software is thickbox, and it works with the jquery ajax extensions. You need to put a couple of hours aside to set it up, and take a deep breath, but you do not need to know (or understand on any level) JavaScript or CSS to get it going. You do have to carefully rename the files you download, which is frustrating, but reading the manual helps! (something I know very little about!) http://jquery.com/demo/thickbox/ I hope that helps, John Smart InternetDesign.com A Human Touch in a Digital world. ========= Begin Sponsor Message ========= Pirates of the Caribbean, what a great flick. Lots of kids want to grow up to be pirates. Some go into the web content business. They loot copy from one client and sell it to many more. The clients get to walk the plank, because duplicate copy is a big SE no-no. At http://GetWebContent.com/LED our copy is custom crafted for you and you alone. ========== End Sponsor Message ========== -------- new post - new topic --------- From: Lee Roberts Subject: Placing links There's been a great deal of discussing on both sides of the fence about placing links to designer's websites from client sites. Unfortunately, the issue will never be resolved as it's all based upon anecdotal evidence and opinion. I found Dr. Weinshenk's comments interesting [ http://www.led-digest.com/content/view/1920/190/ ]. Unfortunately none of her responses were backed by scientific testing and analysis. This goes to show that everyone has opinions and like all opinions there will be people that simply won't accept them. I happen to be one that questions her opinions and would enjoy seeing the scientific testing and analysis the company she works for used reach these assertions. Dr. Weinshenk says, ------------------- "Assuming that the link is at the bottom of the page, if what the web designer is looking for is exposure, then that doesn't give them very good exposure. A link in the "About Us," or "Resources" or "About this Site" and a description of the web designer there would be much more powerful." ------------------- First, the designer's information should never be on the "About Us" page UNLESS the designer is part of the company. Second, "Resources" are typically identified as reciprocal links directories and ignored by far too many website visitors. Finally, "About this Site" pages, more appropriately named "Credits," have been used by some designers I've encountered and the page can become more topically matched to the designer's goal of building relevant links into their site. However, this is not a Usability issue as implied. Dr. Weinshenk says, ------------------- "I agree that [backlinks on the home page to the designer's site] doesn't serve the users (especially since the users really aren't going to see it; I don't think it's going to serve the site owner; and it doesn't site like its going to serve the website designer anyway." ------------------- "... since the users really aren't going to see it..." is clearly an opinion based upon little to no research. You'll be surprised what users really see, but fail to report in usability tests. I will agree with "I don't think it's going to serve the site owner..." Serving the website designer is an opinion clearly not based upon fact or research. We have clients with and without links to our websites. Reasons why our clients don't want our link on their website include they don't want their competition knowing which shopping cart they use to they simply don't want the link. In these cases we follow the request of the client... we may not like the idea, but we respect our client's desires. In cases where the client has allowed us to place a link on their pages we have received many phone calls from our client's shoppers looking for assistance. That's an undesirable burden on our staff and an embarrassment for the client. This clearly denounces the opinion that website visitors don't see the links at the bottom of the website. We have, additionally, received a handful of calls from people interested in using our services. Unfortunately, the majority of those think that our work, while very pleasing, is only worth a couple hundred dollars. Why do shopping cart companies demand those links? Simple, they want to increase their Page Rank values and use their client's space as marketing. Case in point, one shopping cart does everything it can to ensure shoppers know who the shopping cart company is. Some shopping cart companies brand everything from SSL buttons to chat software as their own marketing space on client's without compensation. With all this why is it a problem for a web designer to do the same thing? Why do web designers do it? While this may be anecdotal, it is observed... designers follow the precepts established by those they observe. Whether the links are placed for marketing reasons or for link building, the reason is irrelevant. Web designers have seen it done for years and continue to follow suit; it is an accepted _norm_. What is a norm? Miriam-Webster defines a norm as "an established standard or average: as a : a set standard of development or achievement usually derived from the average or median achievement of a large group b : a pattern or trait taken to be typical in the behavior of a social group." A norm must be observed and become an established standard or accepted as a typical behavior. Does placing a link on a client's website for a web designer qualify? Obviously it is observed by the masses and it is accepted by the many client's whose websites carry these links. Why do advertising agencies, PR agencies, and the like not add links to their sites? I don't really know the answer to that question, but I'll contend that it is based upon the fact that these companies have a far greater reach in their public relations and advertising than the small web design shops we find using these links. I will also throw in that the clients these companies work for do not accept the behavior. Should we punish or ostracize any person or company whose clients allow this small level of marketing for a company or person who has done the client a fair job? I, for one, will not and I can understand why small web design shops acquire links from their clients' web sites. Usability experts test for usability issues. They do not test to determine if a copyright notification or designed / powered by link at the bottom of the web page in an unobtrusive location negatively affects the usability of a web page or website. The bottom line as to why designers and Internet software companies do it is irrelevant. If the client's accept it then that's between them and their provider. SEO companies are implicitly put under notice through the webmaster guidelines established by the various search engines. This notice to the, typically unaware, website owner states that SEO people who want links from their client's websites should not be used. SEO people use this technique to build their link text values from their client's sites when they should know so many other methods of link building. The value of a link to an SEOs website is questionable at best these days, but certainly the perceived value relates to search engine positioning. Would a webmaster's guild work? Nope. That's not going to help anyone. Any Tom, Dick or Jane can get the software and create a web page. Unlike professional licensing required by states for plumbers, electricians, doctors, nurses, and other trades, web design is not and probably will never have a state enforced license. Advertising agencies and other PR agencies do not have licensing requirements so why would a web designer? While attorneys would enjoy the new territory, no advertising, PR agency, or web design company would stand still and open themselves to legal issues due to the market not reaching the website and converting. If this field were opened no sane SEO or other marketing company would be in business... we can't control the market nor the search engines. Just imagine how many law suits would have been filed if this were the case when Google's Florida update occurred... just think about it. Regards, Lee Roberts http://www.merchantmetrix.com -------- new post - same topic --------- From: Barry Mills Subject: Placing links > ... there is NO WAY [Google] can tell if most links are > paid or not paid, UNLESS there is some indication > in the page that would tip them off. If my links on client > sites are all the same and some are paid and some > are not paid, there is no way to tell - Chris Nielsen, LED Digest 2512 I agree with most of Chris's post, but not this bit. Google have a team of people working on identifying sites that sell links, and discounting them for PR purposes. As well as tracking mechanisms, which can be picked up by their spiders, they look out for advertising of links for sale, listing on aggregators sites, and information from forums. They also act on user reports, though I suspect not very fast. So if a competitor has benefited from purchasing links, report them, they may well get downgraded. Barry S Mills Chairman Netstep Corporate Communications http://www.netstep.co.uk (c) Copyright 1995-2007 Orange Wheel, LLC. All Rights Reserved. ----------------------------------------------------------------- "Men are nicotine soaked, beer besmirched, whiskey greased, red-eyed devils." - Carry Nation |
