| LED Digest 2528: SEO Comes Before Usability |
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================================================== The LED Digest Moderated Discussion List "Effective Online Advertising, Since 1997" Data > Information > Knowledge > Wisdom www.GetWebContent.com/LED : the LED's Key Sponsor The Web's Most Experienced SEO Content Providers. www.SEOToolSet.com/training/ : the LED's Premier Sponsor Bruce Clay's Search Engine Optimization Training & Certification ================================================== List Moderator: Published by: Adam Audette LED Digest adam, led-digest.com http://www.led-digest.com .............................................. November 5, 2007 Issue no. 2528 .............................................. .....IN THIS DIGEST..... ====== NEW ====================== --== Stop Supporting IE 6? ==-- ~ Beth Ann Earle "...what would you guys do? Demand an IE6 work-around from the programmer?" ==== CONTINUING ================= --== Usability Comes Before SEO ==-- ~ Richard Stubbings "...it is not relevant to say which is more important." ~ Chris Nielsen "...you can have a unusable site with great traffic and make a lot of money from it." ~ Michael Linehan "...professional SEO's understanding of marketing is still not where it needs to be." --== Content Copied by Another Designer ==-- ~ Richard Neppl "I have found this problem with Ebay." ~ Steven Birk "You can do a quick check at copyscape.com." ~ Nancy Schettler "You are fortunate that the copycat is local..." =========== NEW ================================== From: Beth Ann Earle Subject: Compatibility Issues Between IE 6 and CSS Hi, guys. This is actually a philosophical question, not a technical question (although if anyone has a technical solution, I would loooove to hear it): As I've lamented before, my company has a largely web- and technology-averse client base, most of whom seem to use Internet Explorer 6 and most of whom still find it very, very important to be able to print out their web pages (if not their entire website). Over the last few months, as we've begun to develop sites using CSS, we've had those site owners complain that they can't print their sites out properly. In response to my repeated requests that he find a work-around for the IE6-CSS printing incompatibility issue, our main contact (usually a great guy) at our programming vendor says that: 1. only 5% of computers in the world can't handle IE7 2. we should stop supporting IE6 3. we should have him put some coding on all our CSS-based sites that, upon detecting an IE6 browser, throws up some wording telling the user to get with the program and upgrade (fyi: we pay them a monthly retainer, so it's not like they're going to make any extra money implementing this) After reading the 5% figure above, I did a quick Google search for browser usage and found the following (admittedly unsubstantiated) stats for September '07 -- IE7 accounts for 20.8% of browser usage worldwide; IE6, 34.9%; and Firefox, 35.4%. Based on these figures, IE7 and Firefox together obviously account for the lion's share of browser usage. But ... does that mean we tell our clients to upgrade, because we're not supporting IE6 anymore? Do we tell them that "nobody" prints out websites anymore, so they should just get over it? For the time being, we're putting a "print" button on each page of the CSS-based sites that have to be "printable". The button links to a print-friendly, text-based version of each page that the visitor can print out, if they desire. It'll be interesting in a few months to check the traffic for these sites and see if these pages get used at all. But ... what would you guys do? Demand an IE6 work-around from the programmer? Tell the clients to get out of the '90s and come to terms with today's Internet? Continue creating printer-friendly pages and just charge clients more in the future, if they want their pages printable? Are there other ideas I haven't considered? My gut says to demand a work-around from the programmer. But I'd really like to hear how you guys would handle this. With LED'ly thanks, Beth Ann Earle www.pilotfishseo.com ======== CONTINUING =============================== From: Richard Stubbings Subject: Usability SEO > ... for the professional search marketer, usability > should come first, and SEO should come second. - Grant Crowell, LED Digest 2527 - http://www.led-digest.com/content/view/1941/190/ In my view many SEO experts seem to think that their job is to get vistiors. For e-commerce sites the job should be to get customers. As such the agrument descends to what gets the best results. At the end of the day it is not relevant to say which is more important. You should take detailed metrics and work out visitors and conversion rates and find out what is BEST for that site. It may be that a poorer SEO which gets less visitors gives a much better conversion rate and thus more customers. Alternatively you may find that whatever you do to useability it conversion rate stays about the same so SEO becomes more important. All other arguments are meaningless. Richard Stubbings Kulture Shock http://www.kultureshock.co.uk -------- new post - same topic -------- From: Chris Nielsen Subject: Usability SEO > I would be interested to hear if anyone else > has their own position on this argument, either > as a whole or the individual premises. - Grant Crowell Unlike the chicken and the frying pan, it's clear to me what's more important, and that's SEO before Usability. Just look at the word "Usability". The site has to have someone to "use" it before Usability is a factor. Therefore a site must get SEO and promotion first because it's the most important thing before it can be "used". You can have a site that is has great Usability, but without traffic it's useless. On the other hand, you can have a unusable site with great traffic and make a lot of money from it. All you need to do is have many ads for people to click on and sit back and relax. There are many good sites that are very usable and with ads that do well. But from what I have seen, the worst sites in terms of design and usability are the ones that generate the most revenue for an equal amount of traffic. Thank you, Chris Nielsen Nielsen Technical Services http://www.nielsentech.com -------- new post - same topic -------- From: Michael Linehan Subject: Usability - SEO > ... average professional SEO's understanding of > usability is still not where it needs to be. And that, > ultimately hinders the potential of SEO as much > as anything else. - Grant Crowell I'd mostly agree with you Grant, if we confine the two topics being discussed to usability and search. But I'd like to shift the perspective. I'd like to propose that for a business site (N.B. a *business* site) that usability, as such, is irrelevant, and search, as such, is irrelevant! Because both are parts of the bigger tasks of a business website --- bringing people to the site and selling them our products and services. (And yes, I know that we also want to develop relationships with prospective clients and clients --- but what for? To sell more products and services later.) I'm not saying that no-one has altruistic motives, and so on. If I won the lottery, I'd still be doing what I do. I could just do it solely for those many worthy causes. But right now, for most of us, the website is to make a sale. I like to summarize this by saying, "It's not *Internet* Marketing. It's Marketing... on the Internet." In other words, the primary word isn't Internet, it's Marketing. For maximum effectiveness, a business website must be written and built upon, permeated by and used according to fundamental marketing principles. So in a sense, a high degree of usability is irrelevant if powerful marketing messages are not present. Usability is "just" a part - a component - of the effectiveness of the site's selling process. Yes, absolutely, usability is a crucial, powerful factor in that, and my line above was only meant to jolt you, not to say it is literally irrelevant. But I am saying that it is not a goal in itself. It is part of what makes the site an effective marketing tool, and as such, is a supportive factor. From my perspective, the discussion, therefore, is between "the internal selling effectiveness of the site" and "bringing people there". And I would contend that neither comes first - that they are two sides of the same coin. I've often read forums where SEO professionals, and even the forum leader in one case, are sharing very basic marketing ideas as startling new discoveries. I would therefore paraphrase your concluding sentence Grant (I hope you don't mind) and say... ...I would argue that average professional SEO's understanding of marketing is still not where it needs to be. And that, ultimately hinders the potential of SEO as much as anything else. Michael Linehan Marketing Alchemy www.marketing-alchemy.com ========= Begin Sponsor Message ========= Who *DID* Put The Jolly In Ol' St Nick? Santa's copywriter, of course! How incredible has that person's work been for the past four or five centuries? For SEO'd web content that's fresh as a Christmas rose and relevant as a reindeer, visit http://www.GetWebContent.com/LED today! ========== End Sponsor Message ========== -------- new post - new topic -------- From: Richard Neppl Subject: Copied content > [A competitor] has copied my packages and price > list, which include search phrases, word for word, > and he is now moving up in Google for the same... > search terms which I'm sure is due to copying my content. - Sarah Hayes, LED Digest 2523 - http://www.led-digest.com/content/view/1936/190/ I have found this problem with Ebay. My site, www.theprizewheelstore.com, has pretty good ranking on Google and Ask for search terms that drive business. There is a person who sells on Ebay that lists himself as The Prize Wheel Store, but has no relation to my business. His rankings on Google have been about a page behind or two behind mine. Recently I received a phone call inquiring about the prize wheels I sell on Ebay. Since I do not sell on Ebay, I was a bit puzzled. Then I did some footwork and found this situation. I emailed Ebay regarding this and they sent me a long form to fill out. I am presently in the process of filling out all this info, quite detailed. I am not sure I want to send Ebay all this information about me / my business and am wondering if a simple letter advising them of the situation would suffice. The Ebay marketer sells a junk product and I do not want it reflecting on my business. Advice?? Thanks, Richard Neppl The Prize Wheel Store -------- new post - same topic -------- From: Steve Birk Subject: Copied content Just a quick note to go along with the copied-content discussion. You can do a quick check at http://www.copyscape.com and see if anyone else has copied content from your website. No affiliation with this service... Just remember reading about it here on the LED the last time this subject has come up. Regards, Steven Birk http://MedicalNewsCenter.com Complete, Credible and Current Medical News Coverage -------- new post - same topic -------- From: Nancy Schettler Subject: Copied content How unfortunate! I had this happen too. You are fortunate that the copycat is local, because that gives you the (viable) option to threaten legal action! What I did was notify the copycat, gave her a list of all pages that I insisted she change, and told her that she had 30 days to do it. She did make some changes. But then a few months later (I was watching her site closely) she put it all back again! At that point, I threatened to file a lawsuit for copyright infringement (and sent her a letter by certified mail, return receipt with signature), and notified her website host of the infringement. I also informed my website host what was going on, lest the copycat try to say that it was her content first. At this point I guess she realized I was serious about all this... and she did remove the offending content. I still check her site from time to time, and yes, she still has the same font as my site, and much of the same navigational text, most of the same customer policy and one plagiarized item description, as well as a virtually identical mail-in (printable) order form. But because she also has lots of broken links, unfinished pages, and missing pictures I'm not losing any sleep over it! Nancy Schettler A Well Dressed Kitchen www.AWellDressedKitchen.com (c) Copyright 1995-2007 Orange Wheel, LLC. All Rights Reserved. ----------------------------------------------------------------- "The proud man can learn humility, but he will be proud of it." - Mignon McLaughlin |
