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The LED Digest
Moderated Discussion List
"Effective Online Advertising, Since 1997"
Data > Information > Knowledge > Wisdom
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Bruce Clay's Search Engine Optimization Training & Certification
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List Moderator: Published by:
Adam Audette LED Digest
adam, led-digest.com http://www.led-digest.com
..............................................
December 3, 2007 Issue no. 2546
..............................................
.....IN THIS DIGEST.....
====== NEW =====================
<Moderator Comment>
~ Welcome Bontrager Team
==== CONTINUING =================
--== Calling Out SEOElite ==--
~ Brad Callen
"What I teach is 100% legit."
<Moderator Comment>
~ Ron Coble
"...the daisy chain of endless selling to the
Internet marketing community, both new and old."
~ Debra Mastaler
"...he's a salesman trying to hawk a product
so I take all that with a grain of salt."
--== Charging Shipping [was: Fraud...] ==--
~ John Wagner
"Now we have settled in with calling it
shipping AND handling..."
~ R. Neilson
"...for international customers I have an
added surcharge..."
========== NEW ===================================
<Moderator Comment>
Greetings LEDer,
The emails keep pouring in about changing the format here to a
traditional post-by-post email list. Out of about 150 responses,
probably 70% are in favor of not changing anything. Can't say I'm
surprised, what's worked for 10 years tends to keep working. We'll keep
it status quo here, at least for now.
Thank you for providing such timely and helpful feedback. I won't be
able to respond to each email, but I've sure read them all, and I really
appreciate it.
NEW KEY SPONSOR
I'd like to introduce The Bontrager Team as our new Key Sponsor. I'm
very proud to have them featured on the list. They develop top-notch web
software and are known for strident personal service after the sale. In
fact, they've built a reputation for it. Here are a few links to explore:
The "get acquainted catalog" introducing you to their sites and style:
http://www.FlowTo.us/LED
The highly rated Master Series Software
www.WillMaster.com/Master
The Web Development Resource Hub
http://BontragerConnection.com/LED
You'll see their ad text within the LED for the next few months.
Welcome Bontragers!
-Adam
======== CONTINUING ===============================
From: Brad Callen
Subject: SEOElite
> I've never talked to, met or traded emails
> with Brad [Callen], so I hate to call him out,
> but the claims he makes [on SEOElite.com] are
> pretty difficult to believe.
- Brett Atkin, LED Digest 2545
- http://www.led-digest.com/content/view/1960/190/
Hi Brett, please watch the video I just made at 11:32am EST this
morning... http://screencast.com/t/Nkkh7YFX4S3
What I teach is 100% legit. It's so sad that the internet has become
common place for scam artists. I hope this is enough proof that our
company the furthest thing from that you could EVER find, period.
It truly hurts when I hear someone claiming that what I teach is not
legit, so I hope this is enough proof for you. If not, email me and I
will be happy to answer specifics.
> It would be easier to believe if he provided
> the top 10 sites he runs that generate this
> Clickbank revenue as well as provide public
> access to his traffic reports.
I'm afraid if I did that, everybody and their brother would be copying
off of the markets I've spent lots of hard work researching. We provide
tools that allow the user to find their own markets.
I did provide real-time traffic stats in a screen cam video. Did you
watch the screen cam video on seoelite.com showing several of our
traffic stats? I believe in also showing "video" proof, since you can't
"photoshop edit" a video.
Have a nice day.
Brad Callen
Bryxen Software, Inc.
<Moderator Comment>
Brad, thanks for putting together that video to answer Brett's questions.
Brett and others interested in revenue claims, etc., should be aware
that revenue numbers and Clickbank checks are only one part of the
picture. What's not visible are advertising costs (such as PPC, for
instance) that may be significant.
I have no personal interest in SEOElite and no experience with it, nor
do I know Brad, so these comments don't necessarily apply to him or his
product.
Thanks,
Adam
-------- new post - same topic ---------
From: RonCoble
Subject: SEOElite
In reply to Brett's posted question about SEO Elite and
Brad Callen:
> How many of you believe these claims?
I do not own Brad's software, nor am I associated with
him in any way, however, what little I know about him and
his software, I would conclude that he has all the
documentation necessary to back up his claims.
We tend to forget that anyone residing in the good old USA
falls under Federal Trade Commission rules and laws. I am
no expert on those rules or laws but have read enough of
them to conclude "you had better have documentation to
back up everything you place in 'any' form of advertisement,
whether in print, TV or on the Internet".
All one has to do is post a web page one time and what
you have said "can" be used against you. This is not a
blanket to say "do not be skeptical" it is one that says
just because the claims sound outrageous based on your
experience, don't rule them out as being false.
To the other part of Brett's post about having clients call him
about these big claims they have read on the net, I would say
that much of what you find being hawked on the hype market
of the Internet relates to Internet marketers selling their wares
to other Internet marketers.
Although I believe most of the claims placed on the web pages
of any USA based marketer to be true, I do not believe most
of these "tools" they offer will work for many industries outside
of selling to other Internet marketers. You know the old Levi
Strauss story how he got rich selling his jeans to gold miners?
One size does not fit all when it comes to Internet marketing
and after testing many of the "tools" that are out there like
Brad's and the many others who claim to be able to send you
to the nirvana of Internet marketing with their latest and
greatest thing, I can tell you for my little niche of the world
(import export B2B) most simply do not work.
One other item Brett brought up about Brad posting his top
10 web sites, I would have to ask "would you"? I mean you
have to be a little understanding here and realize that within
24 hours of posting those sites they would probably be duplicated
about 100 times or more by the scraping artists of the world.
Last, my challenge to people like Brad or any of the other
Internet marketers selling the next greatest tool out there would
be to apply that tool to markets "other than" selling ebooks or
telling other Internet marketers how to hawk to other Internet
marketers and on and on and on.
Let me see the results of you applying this tool to selling a
large piece of machinery, or a consumer item like a pool table
or something other than the daisy chain of endless selling to
the Internet marketing community, both new and old.
Ron Coble
Coble International - International Marketing Services
http://www.ImportExportHelp.com
-------- new post - same topic ---------
From: Debra Mastaler
Subject: Calling Out SEO Elite
Brett:
I didn't interpret his comment literally, IMO he's referencing Google's
new and ever changing ranking criteria. This is less about being a new
entity and more about new rules. Which apparently he feels are confusing.
I don't know anything about Clickbank or Mr. Callen's income claims, but
I do know he's a salesman trying to hawk a product so I take all that
with a grain of salt. Besides, if you're looking at this as a link
building tool I'd fixate on the first five bullet points more than
anything and would definitely not overlook the fact he's offering a
money back guarantee.
I have no ties to this man Callen or SEO Elite. SEO Elite is one of the
many tools I use when I'm looking for anchor text reports and such, it
works fine.
Debra Mastaler
Alliance-Link
The Link Spiel
========= Begin Sponsor Message =========
Meet The Bontrager Team
A decade of web site software, and
service to back it up.
Here's a new web site, prepared just
for you. Get to know us and what we
offer for your web site.
http://www.FlowTo.us/LED
It's a "get acquainted catalog".
========== End Sponsor Message ==========
-------- new post - new topic ---------
From: John Wagner
Subject: shipping fraud
> Any ideas? International shippers, how have
> you handled these issues? And another question
> for international shippers (this could start a
> whole new topic)...
- Nancy Schettler, LED Digest 2545
First off let me say that we have been selling on the internet for ten
years so we have a pretty good basis and understanding of shipping
costs. I also want to say that you will never win this battle 100%
simply because most people do not want to pay for something they cannot see.
- We tried flat rate shipping, everyone paid the same amount... that was
a fiasco because the people who ordered one or two items complained that
shipping was too high.
- Then we tried a percentage of the order as the shipping cost, but that
became a problem because it never covered the overseas costs nor the
minimum charges of small domestic orders. Even 10% of $40 is still only
$4 and won't cover a priority mail package.
- Then we tried billing shipping after we shipped and showed the true
cost.... a bookkeeping nightmare and a load of complaints similar to the
one Robert expressed, "how come you charged me more after the fact".
Everyone suddenly became blind and did not see there was no initial
shipping charge on the original invoice.
- Now we have settled in with calling it shipping AND handling... the
handling thing is ambiguous and pretty much covers the complainers when
they want to know why we charged them $9 when priority mail is only
$8.95. Curiously, no one ever mentions that $8.95 is for a limited
weight and the biggest complainers are the ones whose packages weigh 20
pounds and go to the outlying areas, like Hawaii or Alaska. Whatever the
initial cost is we set up the software so that it automatically adds
about $12 to every international order... some we win and some we lose
but it does average out. International customers know they are going to
have to pay more for shipping, we never hear from them complaining about
that.
As for undervaluing an international package, or claiming it is a gift
or something like that to beat the taxes on the other side, we do it
only if the customer specifically requests it and we explain to them
that if we are shipping $500 and claiming it is only $50 we can only
insure it for $50 so if it gets lost it will be on them, we cannot be
responsible. About half tell us to go ahead and do it anyway, while the
other half backs down and tells us to state and insure the full amount.
Under no circumstances however do we suggest that we will do that, we
only do it IF we have an email from them requesting that. Then, if it
does not get there and they put in a complaint with the credit card
company we can fax the email and show that it is not our responsibility.
In truth we only had to do it once, a $1000 package was claimed at the
customer's request to be valued at $100 and it never got there. They
tried to hit us with a $1000 chargeback, we proved that they
effectively requested us not to insure for full amount... end result,
chargeback denied. Never take it upon yourself to do something shady or
downright illegal, it can only lead to problems. IF they request it and
you have it in writing and then do it, you should be covered.
Too many people still have bad vibes about the internet, they do not
understand that our encryption technology is a hundred times better than
the precautions stores take to protect information. As a result too many
still think internet operators are all crooks, like Robert does in the
post leading to your post. For every person ever cheated on the internet
there are millions who aren't but it is still going to take some time
for the media to stop bad mouthing us. Or is that another topic?
John Wagner
http://www.jewelex.com
-------- new post - same topic ---------
From: Becky Neilson
Subject: Shipping fraud
I use Prostores which has a fairly accurate shipping calculator. I would
suggest you weigh 1 yard of each fabric type you sell and add at least a
5-10% more of the overall weight or more to the total.
My shopping cart allows me to specify weight for each item and I
included the packaging weight in that specification. At checkout my
shopping cart adds the weight of all items and then calculates shipping.
I used to try to do shipping based on total dollar sales but it wasn't
always correct. Customers want to know what shipping is going to cost.
You can state that certain fabrics are bulkier or heavier and shipping
may be more.
Also for international customers I have an added surcharge due to the
additional paper work for customs. It can be a little more work but the
international market makes up about 15-20% of my online sales and is not
a customer base that I want to ignore.
R. Neilson
www.hansons.net
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