| LED Digest 2569: Pricing Consultancy Services |
|
|
|
==================================================
The LED Digest Moderated Discussion List "Effective Online Advertising, Since 1997" Data > Information > Knowledge > Wisdom www.WillMaster.com/Master : the LED's Key Sponsor Master Series Software - Get Connected with Your WebSite www.SEOToolSet.com/training/ : the LED's Premier Sponsor Bruce Clay's Search Engine Optimization Training & Certification ================================================== List Moderator: Published by: Adam Audette LED Digest adam, led-digest.com http://www.led-digest.com .............................................. January 15, 2007 Issue no. 2569 .............................................. .....IN THIS DIGEST..... ===== NEW ======================= <Moderator Comment> --== Pricing Consultancy Services ==-- ~ Barry Mills "...the real skill goes in to deciding what to do, not doing it." --== Sketchy Linking Scheme? ==-- ~ William Ernest Waites "[A firm] wants to charge $15k to include the doctor in a web marketing program." ==== CONTINUING ================= --== Web Marketing and Morality ==-- ~ Tom Anson "When it comes to online marketing, a lot of people think of it as technology-driven." --== The Paid Links Scam ==-- ~ Al Toman "...this discussion, as presented here, is almost totally confusing..." ========= NEW ===================================== <Moderator Comment> It's awful quiet out there in LED land. One of the goals I had for the led-digest.com site in the beginning was an "indexed topic" listing where threads could be viewed by topic rather than by issue. The idea was to put all the discussions for a single topic on the same page. Good idea, but it required a lot of manual labor and wasn't at all scalable when you consider there are 10+ years of content and tens of thousands of posts on thousands of threads. (Guess I didn't really think that one through...) Anyway, there are a few pages that I completed before abandoning the project. You can see the listing here: http://www.led-digest.com/content/section/8/191/ Heard of Shanklin Group, Int'l? One of the topics gets a lot of activity and commenting - it's on a page titled "Have I Been Scammed?" and has a thread about the Shanklin Group. You can read it here: http://www.led-digest.com/content/view/880/191/ What's interesting is the comments - read them and see what I mean. It's amazing that something like this continues to happen. Why doesn't Shanklin get put out of business? In that thread there are comments from multiple victims of the fraud, and at least one previous employee divulging their scripted approach to squeeze money out of targets. SEO: 5% Inspiration, 95% Perspiration I really liked this post by Barry Mills, but unfortunately my spam filters (or something) prevented me from seeing it in time to publish. Back in issue 2531 http://www.led-digest.com/content/view/1946/190/ we had a thread about "Pricing SEO Services," and this is Barry's response to a comment by Dirk Johnson: From: Barry Mills Subject: Pricing SEO > There are NO secrets in SEO. Just work. You > hire an SEO consultant to do that work, > using their skill and guidance to do it > properly. If they are afraid that you will > take their proposal and do it yourself, > then their prices are simply too far out of > whack. - Dirk Johnson Dirk has a point, but the fear that some SEOs have is not without grounds. SEO is no different to many types of consultancy service, in that the real skill goes in to deciding what to do, not doing it. But clients, especially SMEs, generally don't like to pay for this because it's somehow "not real work". SEO consultants (and consultants in many other fields) therefore need to be creative about how they present their work in some cases, because the most value an SEO expert delivers may well be in the first few hours they look at the site in question, and diagnose its strengths and weaknesses. From there, a plan drops out quite naturally, and after that it's pretty much grunt work. Skilled, but grunt work all the same. SEO is 5% inspiration and 95% perspiration, like so many things. The inspiration adds almost all the value, but you usually have to absorb that into the perspiration to get paid for it. Barry S Mills http://www.netstep.co.uk We could broaden this topic to include other consultancy services - how do you charge for your work? And as buyers of these services, how do you expect to PAY for this kind of work? ========= Begin Sponsor Message ========= One Way Links to your Site, by the Hundreds? Yes! Get Traffic and Link Popularity to Your Site from Legitimate, General Interest Web Directories. DomainDrivers Makes It Hassle-Free. Details Here: http://www.domaindrivers.com/directory-submissions.html ========== End Sponsor Message ========== -------- new post - new topic -------- From: William Ernest Waites Subject: Sketchy Links Program? I work with a doctor who has been approached by a directory of doctors that wants to charge $15k to include the doctor in a web marketing program. For this sum, the doctor will be listed among a select group of drs in his specialty in his local market. The problem, it seems to me, is that access to the directory is only via a subtle link that is not clear in its intent. It is buried on the bottom of the page and a site visitor must click on it to get to the directory that would include the doctor's web link. He would have exclusivity in his market. As I look at it, while this is is not typical spam treatment, it hardly is visitor-friendly. It raises my suspicions that it's intent is not to provide visitors with easily accessible, helpful information but to create a link list to promote popularity and raise the doctor's Google SERP. Indeed, it was presented as a way to optimize the doctor's site for link popularity. Moreover, cash is required to get the listing. It seems to me that this violates two of Google's no-no's: apparent spamming and paid links. So, at least, it would be a costly waste of money and at worst it could lead to some penalties. Do I have this wrong? Sincerely, William Ernest Waites Eyewriter "Words that make pictures." (c) ======== CONTINUING =============================== From: Tom Anson Subject: Morality > How do you see that marketing on the web is > affecting our moral conclusions? Will our > concept of what seems ethical and moral on > the web begin to change what seems ethical > and moral in our face to face dealings with > each other? - Mari Bontrager, LED Digest 2568 - http://www.led-digest.com/content/view/1983/190/ She cited the example of feeling okay with bashing someone in a public forum, but not feeling quite so comfortable with doing so in a public meeting. Maybe it's just my temperament, maybe it's the business I'm in, but I don't see marketing on the web as anything to change my moral perspective on things. My focus, from the beginning, has been on helping people. It has a very humanizing effect. And, since most of the people I have the most contact with are people with special needs -- needs that my past experience helps me relate to far too well -- what I'm doing online serves to reinforce the elements of patience and compassion and grace. We had a discussion thread a while back, dealing with how we handle nasty emails. I've had my share of those. But, again, remembering the needs of those who are involved, a little grace is not hard to come by, and can have profound benefits all 'round. When it comes to online marketing, a lot of people think of it as technology-driven. But, that is an error of perception. It must always be people-driven. We don't market to machines; we market to those who use the machines in one way or another -- and, most often, to very human ends. We must never lose sight of that. I love John Smart's signature line: A human touch in a digital world. Remembering that helps to make things much less sterile and cold -- and no more likely to bash someone online than while looking him in the eyes. There is one exception to how marketing online has changed my morals: The members of the LED Digest community have been so generous with their help, it has made it much easier to ask for help. With much gratitude to you all. Tom Anson Anson Aromatic Essentials http://www.therapeutic-grade.com ========= Begin Sponsor Message ========= Grab your Visitor's Attention In Two Seconds Flat Attention Ticker makes them notice! Scrolling text banner is perfect for Special offers...News feeds...Syndication to other sites ... $49 one-time purchase--and use it forever http://bontragercgi.com/programs/AttentionTicker/ ========== End Sponsor Message ========== -------- new post - new topic -------- From: Al Toman Subject: Paid links > > I've enjoyed this discussion and the > exchange between Chris and Dan. - Nathan Holley, LED Digest 2566 - http://www.led-digest.com/content/view/1981/190/ Probably because Nathan is in the business. For those of us who are not, this discussion, as presented here, is almost totally confusing except for a few statements such as that I previously discussed. QUESTION; what are you people talking about!?! To get an ANSWER, I turned to Sitepoint: http://www.sitepoint.com/article/text-link-ads-buy-way-top SEO Analytics: First thing I did even before I read the article about TLA (what the heck is a TLA, TOTALLY LOST AGAIN) is visit the author's web site: http://www.bayst-search-engine-optimization.com/ It's sort of a validation of, "Is this just another self-proclaimed SEO dude/dudette?" I find his web site interesting from a unwittingly seo type perspective. TITLE: Toronto Search Engine Optimization SEO Company Toronto SEO Services Firm MEAT TAG description: Toronto Engine Optimization Firm serving ... MEAT TAG keyword: seo company search engine optimization H1: SEO Company - Search Engine Optimization After hours and hours of search within the source document, some absolutely disgusting web design, I can find the H1 tag. Whew! QUESTION: If this SEO dude is a successful SEO dude then why doesn't he spend $1,000 and clean up his Gawd Awful web site design? The TITLE does NOT match the H1 tag but the H1 tag and keyword MEAT TAG do. Therefore, we'll use them as the SEO dude's primary keyword for this webpage. Agree? Next, GOOGLE "seo company search engine optimization": Nope. SEO dude isn't a TOP TENOR. Let's try "seo company". Nope. SEO dude isn't a TOP TENOR. Let's try "search engine optimization" Nope. SEO dude isn't a TOP TENOR. BUT we DID find the old, old, old and infamous BRUCE CLAY~! YAH~! So much for SEO, hey? But wait! This SEO dude speaks tongue that I can understand (read article). Now, let's try the TITLE's keyword: "Toronto search engine optimization" SEO dude places' 6th within the TOP TENOR. ***** Okay girls, does this TELL US something about SEO ??? ***** Further investigation of SEO dude's web site (LINKS) reveals that this guy practices SEO in Toronto, Chicago, New York, San Diego ... which I find very interesting. Just for GIGGLES, let's GOOGLE "San Diego SEO Company Search Engine Optimization California" Nope. SEO dude isn't a TOP TENOR. Nathan and god zillion other SEO dudes/dudettes speak of "compelling content". Okay. What the heck is "compelling content"??? If I want to buy a widget, I go to my already bookmarked favorite widget online store or I might Google "widget" and I buy the widget. Done deal. What is the "compelling content"? "Widget for sale"? I have yet to be "compelled" by web page copy-write to spend my money. How about you? Okay, so let's look at "content". "Get the best performance possible from Bay Street SEO. 9 years of SEO specialist bayst-search-engine-optimization.com/seo-specialist.html experience means you're accessing a trusted and powerful search engine optimization service". Okay. This is what I call, "stick finger in throat and barf" copy write. Nothin' too compelling here except barf. "We have an enthusiasm for helping our clients leverage the full power of "... More "sticky fingers in throat" stuff. (and we all do it) "Complete SEO Services * Thorough study of your online market, what they’re searching for and how you can access them via search engines * Study of your competitors and what they’re doing to dominate the rankings * Web visit analytics so you’ll know who’s visiting and which keyword phrases are the most effective in bringing real customers, not empty visits * Content Development that search engines want, and we create it * Powerful link development strategies to increase your ranking power" Now, this is what impressed me. Is it "compelling content"? Not sure. However, it spells out what I can expect in terms that I, as a potential client, can understand. It is a check list that I can use to follow along with this SEO dude and keep an eye on him. Perhaps, even, it defines "compelling content": "Content ... that SEARCH ENGINES WANT" Okay, NOW we can begin to read the SEO article on TLA. I have much to comment about TLA but we'll do that another day because I learned soooo much about SEO, here, today and it's too much to chew in one session. G'Day, Al Toman studio9 web design (c) Copyright 1995-2008 Orange Wheel, LLC. All Rights Reserved. ----------------------------------------------------------------- "If your outgo exceeds your income your upkeep will be your downfall." - Anon. |
