| LED Digest 2587: Getting Paid Up Front |
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The LED Digest Moderated Discussion List "Effective Online Advertising, Since 1997" Data > Information > Knowledge > Wisdom http://www.WillMaster.com/LED : the LED's Key Sponsor Will Bontrager Builds Powerful Software for your Website http://www.SEOToolSet.com/training/ : the LED's Premier Sponsor Bruce Clay's Search Engine Optimization Training & Certification ================================================== Guest Moderator: Published by: Nathan Holley LED Digest nate, led-digest.com http://www.led-digest.com .............................................. February 11, 2008 Issue no. 2587 .............................................. .....IN THIS DIGEST..... ====== NEW ====================== <Guest Moderator> ~ Havin' fun! ==== CONTINUING ================= --== Deposit or Retainer? ==-- ~ Chris Hamby "If they are arguing about the deposit now, then the trust is not there." ~ Hugh Waters "I'd steer clear of any clients that gripe about payment before you start..." ~ Angela Booth "That's their problem." ~ Sarah Popp "Another option that we have utilized is bi-weekly billing..." --== Microsoft Offering SEO ==-- ~ Barry Mills "...when I saw $5500 & $8500 for the two packages I nearly fell off my chair." ~ Anthony Kirlew "...perhaps it's just good timing for Microsoft to make it's move." <Guest Moderator> "Offering text book SEO for insane prices is bad for the entire industry." --== Social Media is Dull ==-- ~ Michael Linehan "...online marketing is far more like offline marketing than it is different." ===== BULLETIN BOARD ============ --== A Day for Hearts ==-- ~ Dr. Mani Sivasubramanian ========= NEW ===================================== <Guest Moderator> We've got a good one - still lots of posts in the queue. Don't be disappointed if you're not published today - you will, it's a promise. This is how it should be - activity! Discussions, good ones, and opinions, strong ones. Just like a strong sip of absinthe around a dark pub in the wee hours, talking shop with friends. That's when the good stuff comes out. ;) -Nathan Holley ======== CONTINUING =============================== From: Chris Hamby Subject: Payment > This latest client is quibbling about > paying 50% up-front to someone he does not > know... What do other's do before they > commence website design, money upfront or > no money upfront? - Robert Joy, LED 2586 If they are arguing about the deposit now, then the trust is not there. That is not a good sign on a project. I'm sure the money would be very useful for you right now, but I would step back and take a look at your role with this potential client. If they want to hire you, they need to put out a deposit. And you should spell that out very clear in terms and conditions. We have a clause that says every project is begun when we receive the deposit funds and work hours are immediately taken against it since we begin projects immediately. You need that deposit to test their sincerity on the project and commitment. I wouldn't change your stance, because if you do you are communicating they are running the project and that is certainly not a good place to be in. And you need that deposit to ensure you aren't hung out to dry on the project. Sharing the risk 50/50 with them is very fair. We have been doing 75% for a while now and had no problems. I wouldn't consider anything less, its a measure of their commitment to the project. It's our responsibility to make sure we deliver and keep a good reputation for our industry. Chris Hamby http://www.alohamediagroup.com Breathing life into your interactive strategies! -------- new post - same topic -------- From: Hugh Waters Subject: Payment Robert, I'd steer clear of any clients that gripe about payment before you start work. We've always taken a 50% deposit prior to starting work and on the very few occassions I was pursuaded to waive it, things went wrong; endless wrangling about design detail, changed priorities etc etc and finally a long wait for the money. Before setting up our website building business I used to run a very large TV editing company and it was the same there; the clients that negotiated the hardest deal invariably failed to pay at all. Nowadays I just say 'No' if the client is at all twitchy about budget or payment schedules. So, don't be suckered by the lure of the 'big one'! That said, perhaps you could mitigate the risk to them and you by breaking the project into smaller chunks with a 50% upfront on each. After all you don't know them any better than they know you. Even if they are some well known international company, you've not dealt with them before and their corporate image may not reflect their real character from a suppliers point of view. Hugh James Waters Websitebuilders http://www.websitebuilders.co.uk -------- new post - same topic -------- From: Angela Booth Subject: Payment > Our policy has always been 50% upfront and > the balance upon satisfactory completion by > the client. Sounds good to me. Why do you want to change? If you like taking risks, can you say "unsecured creditor"? Robert, I don't know anything about your business, but I do know that if your policy is a 50 per cent retainer and that works for you, you shouldn't change. Stick with what works. Re "quibbling about paying 50% upfront to someone he does not know." That's their problem. And if you work without a retainer, it becomes your problem... :-) All best wishes Angela Booth Writing Hacker - http://writinghacker.com -------- new post - same topic -------- From: Sarah Popp Subject: Payment Hi Robert, We also typically stay within the small - medium size business sector and much of our business comes from direct referrals. Our standard policy is similar to yours where we request 50% up front and 50% upon completion of the project. Occasionally I have run into issues where the client doesn't feel comfortable paying such a large amount up front. In cases like this, I usually sit down with the client and discuss what invoicing terms would make them more comfortable. Usually when a client is uncomfortable with the 50/50 split I will suggest that we break it down into smaller payments such as thirds or quarters that are spread out over the length of the project. This often seems to put the client at ease. It also puts more "break out points" in the project, so if unfortunately a client decides to bail ship a quarter of the way, or halfway though, you should have at least been compensated for the work that has been completed thus far and not left hanging. Another option that we have utilized is bi-weekly billing for the work that has been completed. The downside to this one is that it takes more time to figure out the billing every other week then it does to simply invoice them at the beginning and the end. Hope that helps! Sarah Popp Internet Marketing Strategist http://www.vimm.com ========= Begin Sponsor Message ========= Latest addition => Spam Resistant PHP Form WebSite's Secret Members area access to a collection of Will Bontrager's handy web tools. http://www.willmaster.com/AreaSecret ========== End Sponsor Message ========== -------- new post - new topic -------- From: Barry Mills Subject: Microsoft > How do we feel about Microsoft offering SEO > services? ... This feels really creepy and > it's also just weird. Why would Microsoft > decide something like this, when their PPC > network almost totally sucks, and their old > bCentral arm that targeted a similar market > failed and was closed down? - Nathan Holley, LED 2586 - http://www.led-digest.com/content/view/2001/190/ Hi Nathan, Welcome to your new role, great to have you on board. My first reaction as I was reading down the service description was that it was little more than a set of guidelines on best practice, the sort of stuff that google has always published for free, with an element of customisation to make it look more valuable. Actually, I still think that's all it is, nothing is implemented as part of the fee, it's just advice, and from reading the deliverables, pretty standard advice. I expected the price point to be about $399, when I saw $5500 & $8500 for the two packages I nearly fell off my chair. In the 5k package they include research into your top 10 (yes, TEN) keywords. Wow, that could take several minutes of painstaking research. They can't be serious, this must just be some mad whim that slipped under the radar of the brand guardians. I can't really see many people falling for it, and the fact that it was released 9 months ago and we've only just noticed speaks volumes. But hey, if they want to get behind it and convince the world that these packages are worth this kind of money, anyone on the list making a living from SEO has to be happy about that. Barry S Mills Chairman Netstep http://www.netstep.co.uk -------- new post - same topic -------- From: Anthony Kirlew Subject: Microsoft Nathan, I agree it's somewhat bizarre, but perhaps it's just good timing for Microsoft to make it's move. Google's stock just took a nose dive, and Yahoo just had a pretty big lay off. Why not "partner" with one of the premiere SEO firms out there, buy your competitor with the only real directory, and take back the market. The real question is what will happen to Yahoo and it's services as we know them; will they somehow change? I would hope not. Anthony Kirlew Web Traffic Team http://www.OldSchoolSEO.com <Guest Moderator> Anthony, thanks for the comments. But what does this have to do with Yahoo? This is about Microsoft offering SEO services. A few general comments to the thread: let's examine in bullet form why this is so stupid: - Like Barry astutely observed, everything Microsoft is offering for their "SEO" is available for free via Google Webmaster help. - There is NO IMPLEMENTATION being done by Microsoft - just some advice. - I've never heard of keyword research being so spendy in all my life. 10 freakin' keywords!! Absolutely hysterical. That and some on-page advice will cost you $5500. This makes Microsoft look completely clueless and out to lunch, ready to cash in like some snake oil outfit. They're banking on using the Microsoft name to benefit from the SEO hype. Offering text book SEO (that's 101, basic and general standards-type of stuff) for insane prices is bad for the entire industry. It's sad, sad, sad out there folks. -Nathan ========= Begin Sponsor Message ========= One Way Links to your Site, by the Hundreds? Yes! Get Traffic and Link Popularity to Your Site from Legitimate, General Interest Web Directories. DomainDrivers Makes It Hassle-Free. Details Here: http://www.domaindrivers.com/directory-submissions.html ========== End Sponsor Message ========== -------- new post - new topic -------- From: Michael Linehan Subject: Social Media > Will social media sort of die out, at least > a bit, after the hype wears off? How useful > is it really to vote for a story? - Nathan Holley, LED 2583 - http://www.led-digest.com/content/view/1998/190/ > In many ways this is an extension of > blogging and commenting. - Adam Audette, LED 2586 I'd like to extend Adam's comment to "In many ways this (social media) is an extension of networking". It's yet another way that online marketing is far more like offline marketing than it is different. You cannot just bull into some teen hangout and start selling your product (Oh yeh, I like that band too. By the way, what I do is......). Nor can you bull into some corporate event and start selling (Oh yeh, I liked that McKinsey Quartey analysis on CEO skills. By the way, what I do is....). In some ways, it's not really hard. Offline or on, you get to know people. You make linkages. You share common interests. Now and again, when it is appropriate, a gentle mention of what you do can be made. I think the more the connections are real, the more you're likely to get positive and real responses. Certainly, I find it both far more rewarding and far more profitable when my business connections are real, human connections --- rather than the archetypal sales shark (you are just a portable wallet-carrying unit) that none of us like. Sheesh, even such sales sharks probably don't like the other ones! :) Michael Linehan, Marketing Alchemy www.marketing-alchemy.com ======== BULLETIN BOARD =========================== From: Dr. Mani Sivasubramanian Subject: A Day for Hearts! Dear Adam I'm writing to request your support for a very special event to help children with birth defects of the heart. A DAY FOR HEARTS - Congenital Heart Defects (CHD) Awareness Day http://www.CHDinfo.com/chdaware/ The aim of the event is to highlight the problem of CHD - heart birth defects in children. Last year, with the support of many webmasters, ezine publishers and online marketers, thousands of people visited our CHD awareness website - & many more told friends and family about it! This year, again, CHD Awareness Day is on the 14th February. I look forward to your support. All success Dr.Mani Sivasubramanian Help save a child's heart http://www.CHDinfo.com/ (c) Copyright 1995-2008 Orange Wheel, LLC. All Rights Reserved. ----------------------------------------------------------------- |
