| LED Digest 2603: SEO Ain't Rocket Science |
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The LED Digest Moderated Discussion List "Effective Online Advertising, Since 1997" Data > Information > Knowledge > Wisdom http://www.WillMaster.com/Master : the LED's Key Sponsor Master Series Software - Get Connected with Your WebSite http://www.SEOToolSet.com/training/ : the LED's Premier Sponsor Bruce Clay's Search Engine Optimization Training & Certification ================================================== Guest Moderator: Published by: Adam Audette LED Digest adam, led-digest.com http://www.led-digest.com .............................................. March 7, 2008 Issue no. 2603 .............................................. .....IN THIS DIGEST..... ====== NEW ====================== --== SEO is not Rocket Science ==-- ~ Brad Waller "It looks like I'll be moderating a panel at OMMA Global next week..." --== Tracking Marketing Progress ==-- ~ Shaun Johnston "...my dream of reproducing my work life in an accessible form of journal." ==== CONTINUING ================= --== What to Charge? ==-- ~ Bill Wade "I'd be a bit careful of paid text links." ~ Renee Kennedy "...this write up on banner advertising may help with [Nick's] pricing..." --== Lurkers ==-- ~ Barry S Mills "...if you think you have nothing useful to contribute, please think again." ~ Chris Nielsen "Perhaps Adam should remove ALL personal info and any links that [are] self-promotional?" ~ Meg "Yes, I too am a Lurker..." ~ Brigitte Burchett "...I almost feel like I know some of you personally..." ========= NEW ===================================== From: Brad Waller Subject: New post - Questions for a Panel Hey all. It looks like I'll be moderating a panel at OMMA Global next week called "SEO is Not Rocket Science, but that Doesn't Mean It's Easy" and I'm sure the folks here might have some interesting questions I can have in my back pocket to ask. The audience there is not the same as here, but I bet after all the debates we've had we can come up with some good ones. So, what are the top questions people have? Brad Waller Manage and Sell your own site advertising http://adjungle.com -------- new post - new topic -------- From: Shaun Johnston Subject: Tracking keyword progress Invited to fill some empty space, I report on my "progress" in SEM in Adwords. Google charges me an average of 45 cents per visit sent me. Google claims to send me 20% more visits than I register receiving, so I increase Google's charge by 20%. My average cost is therefore about 54 cents. I in turn charge pay-per-click for visits I send my clients. On average I earn 35 cents. So on visits I "buy" from Google I make only 65%. If visitors from Google on average visit my site more than once I could call that successful customer acquisition, but I can't afford to wait for the return on my investment. So I am aiming at driving my return on those visits into more than they cost me. This puts me in the classic situation of trying to increase the return I get from Google visits from 65% of cost to 100% and more. The problem is primarily that too many visitors generate no return at all. I have defined my problem as needing to increase the quality of my visitors. First step, move down into third place or lower, to improve the conversion rate. In Adwords turn off all channels except Google search. Then, the slow grind of improving return from individual keywords, ads and landing pages. That lands me in a record-keeping nightmare of monthly re-analysis of results for each keyword. To me, this is not an Excel-kind of challenge, a lot of what I want to record is text, including ad layouts. I have adopted a wiki. I am keeping a page for each group of keywords, that I can update each month, leaving notes about what to watch out for next month. I am using pbwiki.com (free version), which uses regular html controls for text (if you use explorer or Firefox) instead of wiki-commands. I can create tables for detailed number-tracking. I can copy and paste into and in from Word, with formatting. And I'm so impressed I am making this wiki a record of my entire business (adding equity to it?), and procedures of all kinds. And I've made this wiki my default page in Explorer, so it's always open. This is the closest I'm come to my dream of reproducing my work life in an accessible form of journal. Shaun Johnston ======== CONTINUING =============================== From: Bill Wade Subject: Ad rates > ... a gift basket company wants to place a > text ad on the home page and one interior > page. And I have no idea what to charge... > Is there some kind of equation with which I > can calculate the price of the ad? - Nick Usborne, LED 2602 - http://www.led-digest.com/content/view/2017/190/ I'd be a bit careful of paid text links. Anecdotally, it's my understanding that they may lead to a site's downgrading on Google. Anyone else aware of this. Thanks, Bill Wade about-air-compressors.com -------- new post - same topic -------- From: Renee Kennedy Subject: Ad rates I realize that Nick is asking about a text ad, but this write up on banner advertising may help with his pricing: The cost of banner advertising is normally calculated by impression (also called “page view”). An impression is how many times that banner is seen by visitors. One person may see the banner more than one time and that is included in the impression count. The cost is usually determined by CPM or cost per 1,000 impressions. In the healthcare industry, decent costs may range from $10 CPM impressions to $75 CPM impressions. You will pay higher prices for more targeted web pages. For instance, if you are considering a banner campaign for Nurses, it would be much more beneficial for you to advertise on a site or a web page that has content that will attract Nurses. It would be less beneficial to advertise on a network of health-related websites. Even though you might get a lot more impressions, these impressions are not as good if they are not reaching the right kind of people. Therefore, it is only natural that you will pay a lot more for more targeted sites or pages. The placement of the ad will also affect price. Anything above-the-fold should have a higher CPM. Hence an ad targeting nurses that is at the top of a web page that attracts nurses, could cost $45 per 1,000 impressions. An ad that is below the fold, might cost $25 per 1,000 impressions. An ad that is on a page that is a general health page, not specifically to do with nurses, that is below the fold, might cost $10. These are just general estimates, you would need to come up with your own rates based on content, targeting, and traffic. Renee Kennedy ========= Begin Sponsor Message ========= Inexpensive Content Rotator Rotate any part of a page. Or even the whole page. ~ Image ~ Headline ~ Leading paragraph ~ Special pricing Content Carousel - http://www.willmaster.com/carousel ========== End Sponsor Message ========== -------- new post - new topic -------- From: Barry Mills Subject: Lurker Doug, the now-outed former lurker, raises an interesting point. > I suspect many lurkers are small business > owners like myself that earn their living > from work other than SEO, web design, web > marketing, etc. > > I have no basis for posting advice on the > subjects discussed on LED - Douglas Bates I wonder how many others reading the list feel this way. The "subjects discussed" are whatever anyone discusses. Adam may correct me, but I don't think there's any rules. There certainly isn't one that says you have to be a web-head to post! Those of us who do post regularly and work in those kind of areas try and help people like Doug out a bit. We don't want a medal, let's not pretend there is no self interest - we do it because it gets us known, because it tests our opinions against peers, and because we learn from the debates - or some of those reasons anyway. But the only way we can hit those goals on a discussion list is by helping people out and giving something of value from time to time, otherwise no-one would read. And, speaking personally, when you've been on a list a long time you do feel a sense of community, and I do put some time in now and again just because I feel someone needs a helping hand, or because Adam's short of material, or maybe because it's better than working. For anyone out there who is running or working in a business that consumes, rather than provides, digital marketing - if you think you have nothing useful to contribute, please think again. Questions are welcome, they spark discussion, and they help professionals understand what kind of problems people "client-side" might need help with, so just asking for help is contributing. Also, when you read or hear stuff you don't understand, or you've just been pitched at by some SEO or developer or agency that turned you right on/off, tell us about your experiences. We're not on this list to sell, but when we're not on the list many of us need to sell to people in our own areas just like you, so any tips you can give us would be really welcome. Give, then take, ... or take, then give - I don't think it matters, but everyone can do a bit of both. Barry S Mills Chairman Netstep http://www.netstep.co.uk -------- new post - same topic -------- From: Chris Nielsen Subject: Lurker > Personally, the digest got too personal. > Bad vibes. Further, the ideas are far too > scattered. Too many posts seemed selfish > (insert my link here) or dominated. - Salem Kashou, LED Digest 2601 - http://www.led-digest.com/content/view/2016/190/ Thanks for being so honest. I was a little surprised to read your comments, but I'm sure I have contributed to what you are feeling. At times I see things touted that I know are opinion, yet they are stated as fact. I try to debunk such things without getting personal, but I may not always sound as calm and professional as I would like. I have a proposal, but I fear if it was implemented that it would kill off the list in time: Perhaps Adam should remove ALL personal information and any links that could be seen as self-promotional? Any posts that are directed to a person and not a topic could be excluded. We might have an idea who the poster was, but there would be nothing to confirm their identity. This would not diminish my activity on the list, and in fact I once suggested something along these lines to Adam. But I think it would offend others and without any personal benefit would cause them to lose interest. On the other hand, it may encourage many lurkers to start posting, since no one aside from Adam would know who they were. I can't agree with the idea that the ideas/topics are "too scattered". That has been the nature of the list from the beginning and I think it's that variety that keeps many of us from becoming board by exposing us to new topics and viewpoints. Thank you, Chris Nielsen AnotherSelfPromotionalLink.com -------- new post - same topic -------- From: Meg Subject: A Lurker Revealed Yes, I too am a Lurker, I think I posted a few times a few years ago. But life is ever changing, some projects go on the back burner and some wander in and take over! I have found some tips very useful, some stuff is past my needs and knowledge. I hope to get one project off the back burner and expect the tips and info from here to be a help. Later Meg -------- new post - same topic -------- From: Brigitte Burchett Subject: Lurker Hi Adam and All! Yes, I am one of those lurkers and have been for many, many years. I almost feel like I know some of you personally, but I think my last post was about 6 years ago. The expertise and knowledge in this group always amazes me and, frankly, intimidates me a bit ;-)) It always seems the better part of valor to keep my mouth shut, so my limited knowledge does not show. It is hard to imagine that those of us that are not full-time developers, marketers, etc would have anything to contribute that could be of value, but we forget (imho) that many lurkers are beginners looking for even the most rudimentary knowledge. That is, after all, how I came to this group many years ago. Maybe, by stepping back and realizing there are most likely folks lurking in the wood work that are new to business on the internet we can draw more of them into the discussion. In that vain, here are some resources I have come to depend on for dependable insight, knowledge and if nothing else, thought provoking content: 1) Justin Cutroni's Blog: A lot of "how to" for Google Analytics, Advertising, etc. http://www.epikone.com/blog/ 2) sphinn Internet Marketing Discussion Forum http://sphinn.com/ 3) Matt McGee's Small Business SEM Blog http://www.smallbusinesssem.com/ Brigitte Burchett www.pondmarket.com (c) Copyright 1995-2008 Orange Wheel, LLC. All Rights Reserved. ----------------------------------------------------------------- "We are hidden in ourselves, like a truth hidden in isolated facts. When we know that this One in us is One in all, then our truth is revealed." - Rabindranath Tagore |
