| LED Digest 2615: Issues with Site Redesigns |
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The LED Digest
Moderated Discussion List "Effective Online Advertising, Since 1997" Data > Information > Knowledge > Wisdom http://www.AudetteMedia.com : the LED's Publisher Boutique Internet Marketing: SEO, SEM, Social Media http://www.SEOToolSet.com/training/ : the LED's Premier Sponsor Bruce Clay's Search Engine Optimization Training & Certification ================================================== List Moderator: Published by: Adam Audette LED Digest adam, led-digest.com http://www.led-digest.com .............................................. March 27, 2008 Issue no. 2615 .............................................. .....IN THIS DIGEST..... ==== CONTINUING ================= --== Static vs Dynamic Sites ==-- ~ John Merrell "Expect some pain if you don't go about it right." ~ Jere Matlock "Keep some of the old static pages exactly as they are." ~ Donald Nelson "...note down the old urls and the new urls and make a permanent redirects..." ~ Al Toman "Your business is a SUB domain of homestead.com!?" --== Anti-Spam Company Spamming ==-- ~ John Smart "I never open spam or respond to spam. Except for the occasional one that interests me!" ~ Tom Aman "Was this actually SPAM or just UCE - there is a difference." --== Link Building Fundamentals ==-- ~ Dirk Johnson "Many people in SEO circles overlook the various 'attributes' that apply to links..." ======== CONTINUING =============================== From: John Merrell Subject: Static vs dynamic > We're going to move to a dynamically driven > website. I have heard that it will take > longer to get those pages indexed, and that > the site may not be indexed as fully as a > static site. > > Advice? Warnings? Pitfalls I should know > about? - Nancy Schettler, LED 2613 - http://www.led-digest.com/content/view/2028/190/ Dynamic is great! Expect some pain if you don't go about it right. A lot of pain if you go about it all wrong! Ideally, all new "dynamic" URL's should be identical to your old ones. Apache mod_rewrite can do this, but expect it to take time to set it all up - and test, test, test. Be very aware of duplicate content issues. Dup content is a plague with most off the shelf packages. You really don't want to lose any deep links that you have. Using 301 redirects will lead to at least a temporary loss of link juice on those. Try to maintain a direct map-over between the old URL's and the new ones. If you are successful in mapping the old URL's to the newly generated pages, then any future changes should not be an issue. Have you considered developing your own system. Probably the best way to avoid the above problems. Thought I would come out of lurkdom for this one... John Merrell Gateway Farm Alpacas http://www.gatewayalpacas.com -------- new post - same topic -------- From: Jere Matlock Subject: Static vs dynamic Basically, what you have now is working. Any attempts to change it risk making it not work. As my grampa used to say, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!" Well, that's good advice but your site obviously IS broke if you're having to maintain a thousand static pages. Ouch! We've done such overhauls on several sites for our clients, without dropping them in the search engine rankings. In fact, we're in the process of one of those right now. This client has great first page rankings for hundreds of art prints. Things to watch for are: 1. Make sure your old page names are all 301 redirected to your new page names. If you do that you shouldn't lose much page rank. This has to be done exactly right -- dont' use http redirects. Bruce Clay's site has some excellent advice on this subject. 1a. Keep some of the old static pages exactly as they are; I'm talking about the pages that are not product related. (About us, products, services, any info that is NOT product-related. Just because you're setting up a database-driven site does not mean every page has to come from a database... Ttry to think outside the DB box. 2. Make sure you revise your sitemap.xml file for Google, MSN, Yahoo, and your sitemap for humans, to reflect all the page changes. It helps to set up a spreadsheet for your own use, and monitor every page you're changing so that it gets where it needs to go. 3. We strongly suggest using mod_rewrite to change the names of your database driven web pages, turning them into search engine friendly page names. 4. Make sure your new pages have unique title tags, meta description tags, headings, and body text -- try to keep the text on the individual product pages the same as the ones you have now. This is not difficult, just time consuming to enter them into the database. We usually set up a system for client-editable text files to be included in the database pages, for specific products, if there's extra info about that product or the client wants to rattle on about a particular product. Such info is very good for both sales and search engine rankings. In my experience, we rarely see bare-bones database-driven sites that contain only minimal product info do very well in the search engines--they gotta have more text for Google to index. Good luck! Jere Matlock http://www.wordsinarow.com Website Design / SEO Consulting -------- new post - same topic -------- From: Don Nelson Subject: On Static vs Dynamic Hi, In LED 2613 Nancy Schettler asks what are the issues involved when thinking about overhauling a static html site and replacing it with a dynamic, data base driven site If you are redesigning a site you always have to be careful that you do not lose traffic when you make the change. Recently I overhauled a static site and replaced it with a content management system (Joomla). The site had 300 magazine articles. So what we did was to load the articles into the cms and generate new pages. We made permanent redirects using the .htaccess file so that when surfers and search engines tried to access the old urls, they are redirected to the new dynamic urls. I checked with the search engines and now, after little more than a few months, they are showing the new urls in the search results. So, if you do decide to go to a dynamic site, then carefully note down the old urls and the new urls and make a permanent redirects for each page. This should allow you to get the benefits of the dynamic site but keep the traffic of your old static site. Best Wishes, Donald Nelson www.a1-optimization.com -------- new post - same topic -------- From: Al Toman Subject: dynamically static Nancy, I'm Glad to see that Well Dressed Kitchen is handling 80% of your on-line business. Kudos~! These are my "sell" suggestions before we address the statics and dynamics. Get the web site into the year 2020 without losing its identity. Similar to how the "golden arches" were/are being updated. What is this~! Your business is a SUB domain of HOMESTEAD.COM !?! Is it OCTOBER!?! I feel the creepy crawlers already~! CRINGE~! If for NOTHING ELSE, get yourself your own domain and become master (mistress) of it, control it, it is yours! But that may be tricky at this point. The testimonials appear to make the LEDer experts look like idiots~! If I H'stead my website, I'll be an online billionaire in 6 days. And I can rest on the 7th. Give me a break~! If your paying more then 7 bucks a month for your web site hosting, you're being robbed~! Yes. I reviewed their web hosting packages. Lose the "mailto:" tag and the "hotmail" account on your contact page. Doesn't your web host server provide email? Mine provides 2500 emails. Do you know that you have 2 separate redundant contact pages? Why isn't there an OBVIOUS link to YOUR favorite fabrics web page? I had to "search" for it and I knew that I was looking for it. Self promote, girl~! I don't personally buy what you sell so I don't know the mind-set of your buyers, however, if I have cash in my hand and you want it in your hand, why do you make me work to give it to you? I had to click, click, click, and click just to see a "BUY NOW" button~! By then, I forgot what I was looking to buy~! You should re-arrange the furniture in the kitchen, here. And it really wasn't a BUY NOW button. It was an "add to cart" button that is almost hidden on the page. Geesh! Whatta we gonna do with you!?! Most of the reviews speak of "dynamic web pages" thinking inside the "dynamic web page" box. You can also think outside of the "dynamic web page" box. You can load static web pages with "dynamic" content. You can dynamically create "static" web pages without having to worry about "mod-rewrites". How 1920's that is. Mod-rewrites are just that, Johnson&Johnson band-aids. If you are "adding" like products, then, you can setup a dynamic template master into which you plug-in your data, click the "create & publish page" button and you're done~! If you have more than 500 products, then consider a mysql database. Otherwise, there is no need. You are not storing security-sensitive information, here. You may want to consider XML storing, handling, and parsing to make your data more mobile. This can be done "dynamically" with "static" web pages. Throw in a little W2.0 as is being discussed here in the LED. Sprinkle in a little AJAX to make things interesting. DON'T LOSE THE SINGER SEWING MACHING PICTURE. That sewing machine is a classic and I've actually sewn on one~! Though I'm a miss-placed Yankee, here in North Carolina, I'm a born and bread New Yorker. I'm familiar with your local area and it's a LOT of potential. I think that you can do bunches more with your web site to help your business without worrying about "dynamics" and "statics". I'd address a few issues with your web site then concern yourself and your money more with the "dynamics" of marketing on the internet. Your link popularity is around 90 (non-contender). Your search engine saturation is around 390pages (Google). The keyword "fabric home decorating accessories" does very well, 8th on SERP #1 for about 8,000,000. You appear on SERP pages 2 and 3 for MSN and Yahoo for "placemats". That's not bad. Sewing / quilting fabrics online doesn't place your (favorite fabrics) web site. Al Toman Web Design Your Business http://www.studio9.ws studio9 web design -------- new post - new topic -------- From: John Smart Subject: Anti-spam > I received this funny email today. A LEDer > (who would like to remain anonymous) got > spammed by a company pushing their > anti-spam product. - Adam Audette, LED 2614 - http://www.led-digest.com/content/view/2029/190/ Stopping spam is easy - if no one responded, all spam would stop within a few months - they only do it because it makes money. I never open spam or respond to spam. Accept for the occasional one that interests me! Were it not for spam, I would not know about 2 inch radio controlled helicopters! There needs to be, I think, education. I bet sending out spams costs about the same as buying ad words - and I see the latter as doing much more good, and less bad. Or we could take a more direct approach. Some idiot sent out a lot of spam, all with my address as the bounce-to address, with no web address, but a phone number, that went to voice mail. I sent Adam a mail suggesting he publish the number here, and encourage every reader of the LED to call it and ask them to not send out spams :) I then realized the potential legal ramifications for Adam, me, and any one joining in, so I sent an IM saying 'ignore that' - but part of me (most of me!) wishes we had done it. I will quote the text from the site of another spammer who is today using me as the bounce to address! This just shows how evil these idiots are: -------------- "Terms: By entering this site you hereby agree to these terms and conditions. Code 431.322.12 of the Internet Privacy Act signed by Bill Clinton in 1995. Code 431.322.12 established that you can not threaten our ISP(s), Internet Service Providers, or any person(s) or company(s) storing these files, and can not prosecute any person(s) affiliated with this page, which includes family(s), friends or individuals who own, run or enter or purchase from this web-site. By continuing to enter this site, you are expressly and impliedly agreeing to all terms as stated above, and affirm that you are in compliance with all federal, state and local laws concerning the content of this site." -------------- They sell fake watches :) The problem is that simple though - as long as spamming makes money, people will spam. The only ones who can make spamming not make money is all of us - and sadly, there is no way to make everyone do something (or not do something). *Sigh* John Smart InternetDesign.com A Human Touch in a Digital world. -------- new post - same topic -------- From: Tom Aman Subject: Anti-spam Too bad this doesn't show the email headers as I have a question or tow about this. Was this actually SPAM or just UCE - there is a difference. SPAM is email sent blindly in bulk to any email address the sender can find anywhere in hopes that a few will respond so he/she can make a buck. No attempt is made to determine if the item offered is appropriate to the email recipient. Very often the list of recipients is not shown in the headers and the email does not contain any "To:" header line. SPAMmers will send again and again to the same list, offering the same thing or a variety of things. UCE (Unsolicited Commercial Email) is normally sent to targetted / selected recipients offering a product / service that the recipient could potentially find of interest. These are usually sent to a specific "To:" address if the sender has that info or it may be sent to a generic address like "Webmaster" or "Info" if no contact information is shown on the Web site and the email pertains to something about the Web site. There is no need to worry about unsubscribing or doing anything else about it if you are not interested as the mailing will not be repeated. If you are interested, the ball is in your court, and it is up to you to respond to the email or otherwise establish contact. I would agree, however, that as a sales pitch, the content of this email does leave a bit to be desired. Tom Aman Aman Software http://www.cyberspyder.com -------- new post - new topic -------- From: Dirk Johnson Subject: Link Building Fundamantals Hi Adam, Great article on the concept of linking strategy. May I expand on some concepts that you touched upon? [ see: http://www.audettemedia.com/blog/link-building-fundamentals ] Many people look at the links of their competitors. It's a natural thing to do, even if the search engines did not exist. While it can be shortsighted, from the standpoint that many competitors do not fully exploit their own linking possibilities, a comprehensive competitive analysis of several competitor sites can be a very good starting point. After all, the sites that are willing to link to your competitors would likely be the ones most willing to link to your own site. A good competitive analysis also reveals which layers in Adam's pyramid are at play for that realm. From a practical sense, not all layers or approaches are applicable to all sites. Which brings us very quickly to one glaring warning for site owners. You have to apply all link building strategies in a real world environment. It's easy to "imagine" the various linking possibilities using the theories espoused in various SEO articles, but keep in mind that the proverbial "free" link from a high PageRank site like CNN.com (and others like it) is an impractical goal for the great majority of site owners. Many such articles (not Adam's) couch this as if these links are just a matter of asking, or that they magically appear based on "good content". They are not and do not. If it were easy to get them, then everyone would do it, as Adam points out in his article. Many people in SEO circles overlook the various "attributes" that apply to links that are found in a competitive analysis. These attributes can also be applied to "imagined" links that are being contemplated as a part of link development strategy. Here are just some of those attributes, and there are likely several more that I have overlooked: - Accessibility: That is, is the same link available to other sites in the same realm? Some links are simply inaccessible to other sites, for a myriad of reasons. - Time to placement: How long will it take to get that link placed? - Stability/Duration: How long will the link stay in place? - Requirements: What most be done first, in order to qualify to get that link? Write and article? Sign up as a member? - Relevance: Will the site or, more importantly, the page where the link resides be relevant? Can you manipulate the page content? - Dilution: How many other links are on that page? - Direct Traffic: Will the page itself generate traffic, or be lost in total obscurity? - Search Engine Value: Here we enter the nebulous world of PageRank, TrustRank, and other less quantifiable attributes, many of which may be based on unfounded but popular and widely followed SEO theory. Tread carefully with any assumptions, both positive and negative here. - Cost: What will it cost to get the link? With this, you must also consider the requirements to get it, such as article writing, etc. Once these attributes are revealed for each link in a competitive analysis, a site owner can then make informed decisions about how to proceed with spending real resources. Here's where chasing the latest SEO fad comes into direct conflict with practical return-on-investment considerations. Performing an analysis like this reveals a lot about what works consistently, at the least cost, with respect to linking. Like most of us, I also read a lot of the talk on in SEO circles about the latest and greatest linking fads. However, in real world applications, I see very little of that kind of complex theory manifest itself in real world, day-to-day, first page SERPs. It's a well-kept secret in SEO circles that most well-ranking sites have, instead, simply covered the basics quite well. More to the point, if a site has managed to apply the more esoteric linking theories successfully, then their strategy is now fully exposed. Just run a thorough link back analysis. Sometimes, being first to the table, at the highest cost, simply paves the path for your more savvy competitors to follow, thus negating much of the advantage. There is no doubt that links that are based on genuine and gratuitous content citation are the hardest links to duplicate, and are worth pursuing. Everything else can be readily copied by determined competitors, so over-paying for fads is probably not a good idea. One reality that must be faced by many site owners is that many sites simply do not lend themselves to genuine and gratuitous content citation on a scale that matters. This is an acute situation in the local real estate markets. It is very hard for an agent in Des Moines to concoct some prose about their community that 1) has not already been said, and 2) rises to the level worthy of gratuitous citation by hundreds of other sites. Given that reality, then the hunt for links becomes much more mundane, and it is thoroughness, not gaming, that usually rules the day. Site owners who wish to compete effectively and efficiently should venture into all of this with their eyes wide open and a firm hand on their wallets. As I have said time and again, the return-on-investment aspect of this work is rarely, if ever addressed in SEO circles. It seems to be the taboo subject. I think it should be put first. Make sure that your high-priced link strategy will yield hard-to-duplicate, high value links that are based wholly on genuine, independent third-party content citation. Otherwise, you'll simply be paying for the blueprint to a flimsy link scheme that may not even work in a highly competitive environment. If does work, and if it is rather hollow at the core, it will be readily revealed and duplicated by your own competitors, in very short order, at far less cost to them. All of this does explain why many of the top ranking sites in niche markets have used similar and very fundamental, but thorough, old-school linking strategies to get where they are in the SERPs. Because it has been demonstrated to work, time and again. Sites chasing the more faddish linking alternatives may very well find it hard to compete with a site that has a far-reaching foundation of mundane links. Site owners who can see the differences that I describe and act upon it will certainly spend less money and time to reach a competitive advantage. Best regards, Dirk Johnson www.domaindrivers.com (c) Copyright 1995-2008 Orange Wheel, LLC. All Rights Reserved. ----------------------------------------------------------------- "The Mathemagician nodded knowingly and stroked his chin several times. "You'll find," he remarked gently, "that the only thing you can do easily is be wrong, and that’s hardly worth the effort." - Norton Juster |
