| LED Digest 2638: Page Clutter and Rankings |
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The LED Digest Moderated Discussion List "Effective Online Advertising, Since 1997" Data > Information > Knowledge > Wisdom http://www.AudetteMedia.com : the LED's Publisher Boutique Internet Marketing: SEO, SEM, Social Media http://www.SEOToolSet.com/training/ : the LED's Premier Sponsor Bruce Clay's Search Engine Optimization Training & Certification ================================================== List Moderator: Published by: Adam Audette LED Digest adam, led-digest.com http://www.led-digest.com .............................................. May 2, 2008 Issue no. 2638 .............................................. .....IN THIS DIGEST..... ====== NEW ====================== <Moderator Comment> ~ Links to Share --== Page Clutter ==-- ~ Bill Lund "...your page clutter may affect your rankings." ==== CONTINUING ================= --== Triangular Linking ==-- ~ Michael Motherwell "Reciprocal links are NOT discounted as an absolute." ~ Kym McLaughlin "Trying to pull one over on SEs is a waste of energy and time." ~ Donald Nelson "I have always found these schemes to be 'creepy'." --== SEO for Flash ==-- ~ Barb Sybal "...we've got thousands more customers because of [Flash]." ~ Richard Graham "I would love to have all my sites completely flash based!" ========= NEW ===================================== <Moderator Comment> Greetings LEDer, I have a couple links to share. First, Aaron Wall has put up a fantastic article examining various value calculations of a #1 Google ranking. In addition to outlining detailed processes for keyword and PPC research, Aaron shows the value differentiations between ranking spots (the difference between being #1 and #8 for example). Great article, really great: What is a #1 Google Ranking Worth? http://training.seobook.com/google-ranking-value Next is my newest article from the www.AudetteMedia.com blog. It was very difficult to write. Information architecture is a hard subject (for me) to get a firm handle on. Please check it out and comment with your feedback! The Fundamentals of Optimized Information Architecture http://www.audettemedia.com/blog/optimized-information-architecture Between those articles you'll be reading all weekend! -Adam -------------------- From: Bill Lund Subject: Page clutter as a Ranking Factor Hello Fellow LEDrs, I was just reading about a patent application by Yahoo which suggests the search engines might use page clutter as one of the factors in determining the value of the page and thus your page clutter may affect your rankings. The article listed 51 elements that can be analyzed to determine the clutter of a web page , which as you can imagine covers just about everything you can put on a page. I would think it would be pretty easy to determine how cluttered a page is...too many ads and links for instance. The article further states that Google has a similar patent application with the name "Detecting and rejecting annoying documents". Any thoughts from the LED experts on this topic before I go look into reducing the clutter on my web pages? Do you think page clutter can have a significant impact on your page ranking? Bill Lund http://www.chilipepperapp.com ======== CONTINUING =============================== From: Michael Motherwell Subject: Triangular linking > What's the current thinking about > "triangular linking"? Since reciprocal > links have been devalued, does this > strategy make sense? Are there any hidden > dangers? Is there a right and wrong way to > do it? - Scotty West, LED 2638 - http://www.led-digest.com/content/view/2052/190/ Reciprocal links are NOT discounted as an absolute. What is possibly discounted (though I can not prove it) is the stupid kind. Step back: reciprocal links have two meanings: 1. Denotative - two pages / sites that link between each other. 2. Connotative - the common usage is used to mean "a page full of links to people who agree to link back to me" style reciprocal links. I hate in SEO when a descriptive term like reciprocal links is used for a specific implementation, but we are kinda stuck with it now, so complaining doesn't get very far :) The former definition, of links between sites, is pretty much an unavoidable consequence of the web. If a conversation is to exist between blogs as an example, links back and forth have to exist. Ditto a portfolio and the designer, two companies from the same business, newspapers fighting a war over an issue etc etc on and on. Reciprocal links are everywhere, and discounting them all the time wouldn't be a wise move for any SE. The latter, however, the links pages approach, are not the best idea, mostly because every link out joins you to a community, and do you really want to be associated with some of the people your link partners are? That is the key to understand here: that links define groups of sites, or neighbourhoods, and belonging to a bad one can potentially hurt your site. A link matrix can be used to see what groups exist, and it is pretty easy to discount all the sites that are within say three links of a bad domain, and discount certain links and/or sites. And for triangular links, the same issues would still apply, and the how it is done would matter the most. If your crappy reciprocal links page now points to sites that don't directly link back, it is still the same crappy solution with just the one level of obfuscation. It is just as easy to find these as reciprocal links, in truth, and being part of one adds you to the neighbourhood of all the other crappy sites doing it. On a side note, the silliness of triangular schemes is what made me write: http://www.insearchofstuff.com/2005/10/14/linking-secrets-of-the-ultra-rich/ and the brilliance that is the "Trapezoidal Linking Matriflux(tm)". Michael Motherwell -------- new post - same topic -------- From: Kym McLaughlin Subject: Triangular linking Triangular links are often used in an attempt to prevent direct reciprocal linking. Most often triangular linking is used in hopes that it is too complicated and Google (and other search engines) will not notice what you are doing. Triangular links might work and I am sure they can be made to look natural. Here's the "but" - But, when you use any technique that attempts to "trick/fool" the search engines, do it knowing that it can and probably will cost you in the end. Trying to pull one over on SE"s is a waste of energy and time. Kym McLaughlin Advanced Internet Marketing http://www.top20promote.com -------- new post - same topic -------- From: Donald Nelson Subject: Triangular linking Dear All, A reader asked about Triangular linking. I have always found these schemes to be "creepy." First of all they are not done by sincere web owners looking for a good site to trade with. Rather, the linking work has been outsourced out to companies (usually in India) to do and the quality of the links is generally not up to the mark. When I say quality of the link, I mean the page where your link will end up: you don't know if it is on a good site or not, and usually it is buried on a page that no human will never see. Reciprocal linking was a sincere site-enhancing method in the early days of the Internet but it has degenerated to being a nuisance these days (I know fellow LED reader Dirk will jump a this, but this is my sincere opinion). Triangular linking is just a slight variation and I am not sure what Google thinks of it, but I think it is worse than straight reciprocal linking. Sincerely, Donald Nelson www.a1-optimization.com -------- new post - new topic -------- From: Barb Sybal Subject: Flash SEO > Why use Flash at all? It seems to me there > are two main reasons: to wow people with > the effects that can be produced; because a > developer happens to be really comfortable > with Flash, so it's easier for them > > Well, delete number 2, obviously. That's > not a valid reason for a business site. - Michael Linehan, LED 2637 The above comments by Michael seem to be deja vu for me -- I think he said the same thing on a few lists about 6-8 years ago, which I'm here to thankfully say is not quite the only reasons to use Flash on a site. NB: I'm hoping my memory is correct -- didn't Michael manage a science fiction site years ago, or have something to do with science fiction. If not, my apologies for saying Michael's name in reference to a past post. ** [Moderator sticks his head in: you're probably thinking of Michael Martinez, who's a regular on the list but hasn't posted on this thread. I'm going away now, back to you Barb. -adam] ** As a printing company online (we're specifically B2B, too), we have been using Flash successfully for many years: we call it the Design-it-Yourself section so that people who are design challenged (for print at least) can create their own direct marketing postcards online, and proof it before it goes to print. I'd say we were 2nd to adopt this type of feature on our site about 8+ years ago, and now it's very common in the online printing industry. Have we lost potential customers because they didn't know what they were doing or couldn't use it with dated computers & browsers? I'm sure we have, but that's not the point ... we've got thousands more customers because of it. We're not online to be everything to everyone (there's at least one big site that starts with a V that can take them and we're quite happy with that). Our target market is fairly clear I think: focus on those customers who are looking for quality -- specifically designers, artists and photographers. The DIY section is appropriate for tech-savvy marketers. So if designers are still limiting their skills to static sites, all I can say is good luck to them in the long run. Barb Sybal GFX Printing http://www.gfxinc.com -------- new post - same topic -------- From: Richard Graham Subject: Flash SEO Hello, Michael Linehan asked: "Why use Flash at all?" My websites revolve around learning languages, so the big advantage for me of flash is sound. Plus all our in house graphics were originally designed in flash and come out to be smaller file sizes in flash. I also use flash for printed materials e.g. http://www.genkienglish.net/genkijapan/hiraganaworksheeta.htm Which has several advantages. In fact if it wasn't for google loving text so much my viewers would love to have all my sites completely flash based! Be genki, Richard Graham http://www.GenkiJapan.net (c) Copyright 1995-2008 Orange Wheel, LLC. All Rights Reserved. ----------------------------------------------------------------- "Vision looks inwards and becomes duty. Vision looks outwards and becomes aspiration. Vision looks upwards and becomes faith." - Stephen Samuel Wise |
