| LED Digest 0005: Do WE Click Through? |
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================================================== LinkExchange Digest Moderated Discussion List "Effective Online Advertising" ================================================== List Moderator: Supported by: John Audette LinkExchange This email address is being protected from spam bots, you need Javascript enabled to view it http://www.linkexchange.com .................................................. January 31, 1997 Digest #005 .................................................. .....IN THIS DIGEST..... ==== NEW ======================= "Animated Banners" ~ John Williams "Do WE Click-Through?" ~ Doug Martin "Banner Creation Software" ~ Jennette Johnson "CTR is Not the Whole Story" ~ Christopher Herff "Banner Testing" ~ Richard Harper ~ Techman "Targeting Banners" ~ Antoine Zammit ==== CONTINUING ================= "Banner Standards" ~ Kristi Stone "Downsizing Banners" ~ Markus Gemstad ~ Kim Elgie "Developing Links" ~ Dan Loyer ==== INTRODUCTIONS ============== ~ Janet Jarosh ==== BULLETIN BOARD ============= "Thank You!" ~ Scott Dial "Good Banner Info Resource" ~ Fredrik Gillstrom "Keep Up the Good Work" ~ Beckie Staley "Web Hosting Info" ~ Kevin Martin ==== FREE BANNER OFFERS ========= "ESDevelopment" posted by Valerie Voight ~ Getuwell ~ Erik Smith ~ Eric Parrow ==== NEW ============================== From: "John \"Hello, World!\" Williams" < This email address is being protected from spam bots, you need Javascript enabled to view it > Subject: Animated Graphics in ads In the last digest (#4), I saw a couple of people requesting animated banners. I hate to be draconian on this, and I'm not normally this abrupt, but if ILE allows animated GIFs, I'm out of the program. My site has a great deal of text and other graphics on it, and my experience with anitmated banners is that they grab someone's attention...and grab it... and grab it... Great for the advertiser, sure. Not so great for person who worked hard to make a site that actually has content. I mean, if your readers can't read your page because of the animated ad, why put up a page at all? I *know* I'm not the only one that can barely read something with an add twitching in the corner of my field of vision. :-) --John ------------------------------------------------------------------ "It's easy to sit there and say you'd like to have more money. And I guess that's what I like about it. It's easy. Just sitting there, rocking back and forth, wanting that money." --Jack Handey ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.3wave.com/~prefect/ Exit, Pursued by Bear ++++ new post ++++ From: Doug Martin < This email address is being protected from spam bots, you need Javascript enabled to view it > Subject: Do WE Click-Through? My name is Doug Martin, and I operate a web design and hosting service aimed at serving small businesses (http://www.ealnet.com). I joined ILEabout two months ago, and so far have an extremely low CTR. There has been a lot of discussion during this first week of the digest about CTRs, and a question comes to mind - how many of us click thru on the banners ourselves? I update pages fairly frequently, as well as exercising the server, and I estimate my own CTs to the ads I see at about 10% or more. About half of those are for things I may be interested in, the rest are for competitors who I check out for comparison. Anybody else willing to confess? Doug ++++ new post ++++ From: Jennette Johnson < This email address is being protected from spam bots, you need Javascript enabled to view it > Subject: banner creating software Hi everyone, I have been with the LE since August '96. Banners are frustrating to me. I am an artist and want to use my talents in my banner. I can only make jpeg formats with the graphic software I have. I have used the banner maker but I would much rather create it myself. Does anyone know of software(inexpensive) that would be adquate for making gif's? I don't have a problem with keeping the file size down. I just don't need to make gif's that often.I have a scanner and usually use jpeg format for my web site.I have corel photo-paint5.0 but it won't let me save in gif. Any suggestions would be appreciated! You can reach me at: Jennette Johnson This email address is being protected from spam bots, you need Javascript enabled to view it http://www.gnatnet.net/~artbyjen/gallery.htm ++++ new post ++++ Subject: Click-thru ratios From: This email address is being protected from spam bots, you need Javascript enabled to view it (Christopher T Herff) I'm not so certain I have much faith in click-thru ratios. Just because someone doesn't click through to your banner doesn't necessarily mean they're not interested. Case scenario: I was on yahoo, and found an interesting website. I went to it, liked it, and bookmarked it. A few days later, I was going through again, and found a website that had the banner advertisement. Being an ILM member and realizing the credit the person would get, I clicked through, and then clicked back on my browser, just to help the interesting site out, and then went on my merry way, and then used my bookmark to get to the site. If I hadn't been an ILM member, I probably could have just set a mental note to go to that site when I was done via a bookmark. This case is not your everyday run-of-the-mill happening, and may be rare, but it only shows why people and companies shouldn't put so much faith into numbers. I also run The Cosmos Project, if anyone enjoys reading unusual, clean and original humor, pay me a visit at my site in my signature. Link Exchange Member 101207 Christopher Herff -- This email address is being protected from spam bots, you need Javascript enabled to view it http://www.worldcanvas.com/cosmo42/ ++++ new post ++++ From: Richard Harper < This email address is being protected from spam bots, you need Javascript enabled to view it > Subject: Banner Testing -- Help! To All: Banner testing is something that I am VERY much concerned about at the moment. I am considering spending thousands of dollars a month on banner advertising and I don't want to burn those impressions up on a banner that produces a click-through ratio of 100:1. In fact, my criteria is a banner that produces less than a 30:1 ratio. I am still looking for that banner having tested three already. I asked the Link Exchange if I could open an account pointing to a page that was an exact clone of my home page to be used exclusively as a banner testing page. The idea was to test a different banner each week with about 5,000 impressions, until I get three or four that meet my requirements. The response that I received was 'we don't recommend that our users do that' or words to that effect. This creates an uncomfortable situation for me. Say I get a banner with 25:1, and over time that moves up to 32:1 and I want to replace the old banner with a more effective one. But at that point I'm buying 40,000 impressions per week. It seems like I can do one of two thing. 1) Take my chances, put up a new banner and hope for the best and probably get nailed, or 2) Stop advertising for a week or two while I test the new banners at the 5,000/week level and risk killing the momentium that I had built up. Another thought is that not being able to test a banner in the same environment where it will eventually be used is very likely to return inaccurate number? So, the question is: How do you effectively test a new banner once you start advertising for real? Best Regards, -- Richard Harper, Mailto: This email address is being protected from spam bots, you need Javascript enabled to view it Enchanted E-Books: Http://www.E-Books.Com ++++ new post - same topic ++++ From: "Techmen" < This email address is being protected from spam bots, you need Javascript enabled to view it > Subject: Switching banners It would be interesting to see what would happen if LE let you use two or more banners at the same time, so you could compare their click-through ratios and to learn which was a more effective banner. Techmen http://members.aol.com/reader3382/ ++++ LinkExchange Comment ++++ We are currently in the process of adding additional multiple-banner capabilities to our service, along with a lot of other features that our members have requested. So, please keep those suggestions coming! Just send them to This email address is being protected from spam bots, you need Javascript enabled to view it We're listening... :) Tony Hsieh LinkExchange This email address is being protected from spam bots, you need Javascript enabled to view it ++++ new post ++++ Subject: Idea to Increase Overall Click Thru Rates From: Antoine Zammit < This email address is being protected from spam bots, you need Javascript enabled to view it > First & Foremost Thank you for such an excellent service. The only drawback we find with Link Exchange is the fact that we have no control on what pages our banners will be displayed. One suggestion: If LE can offer its users the ability to select the sites that the banners are to be displayed on I am sure that the Click Thru rates will increase. Sincerely, Antoine Zammit This email address is being protected from spam bots, you need Javascript enabled to view it This email address is being protected from spam bots, you need Javascript enabled to view it ==== CONTINUING ======================== From: kristi < This email address is being protected from spam bots, you need Javascript enabled to view it > Organization: On-the-Net Subject: Banner Standards I've been in the creative and software field for over 10 years. I have not seen a magazine ad page size that was the same. (Even accross same company publications.) Standards are great for the internet but could damage the flexibilty needed for creative advertising and promotion. People will probably spend a lot of time and effort to get these standards passed. But you can be assured, the first person to break it will be the one with the "AWARD WINNING" creative ad size. That is what advertising is all about. Making your message stand out from the rest. Kristi Stone On-the-Net Cyber Architects - http://www.on-the-net.com and now http://www.i-depth.com i-Depth for Web Masters and Doers All the stuff you thought you needed a programmer for... ...Now, Do it Yourself! This email address is being protected from spam bots, you need Javascript enabled to view it 203-270-6388 ++++ new post - new topic ++++ From: "Markus Gemstad" < This email address is being protected from spam bots, you need Javascript enabled to view it > Subject: Getting Banners Down to Size Doing my graphic I use PhotoShop and Paint Shop Pro. Since Paint Shop Pro is shareware anyone using Win95 can download it (everyone should :-). A while ago I found a plugin that works with both these programs and as a stand alone app. It's called Ulead PhotoImpact GIF/JPEG SmartSaver. It's really good at making your gifs smaller in Kb. Using this program lets you reduce colors and see how large the file is (in Kb) without saving it. Here's where you can find a trial version: http://www.ulead.com/ I really recommend this program as I use it myself with all my web graphics. And that is a lot. Because I have a web graphic collection with free backgrounds, bullets, bars and buttons. I now have over 800 images. I've gotten lots of award so I guess the site looks rather good. Please visit "graphic.web@rt" at this URL: http://home1.swipnet.se/w-15009/ Regards Markus Gemstad / Graphic Artist (made that up myself) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Markus Gemstad Tel: 08-531 786 79 Klyvningsv 19 E-mail: This email address is being protected from spam bots, you need Javascript enabled to view it 145 60 NORSBORG http://home1.swipnet.se/~w-15009/ Sweden http://hem.passagen.se/gemstad/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ++++ new post - same topic ++++ From: Kim Elgie < This email address is being protected from spam bots, you need Javascript enabled to view it > Subject: Making Banners under 7K This may be helpful for those who are having problems making banners and keeping the file size under 7k. 1. At the most try not to use anymore than 2 or 3 colors including your background. 2. If you like to use drop shadow's with your text, limit it to only one or at the most 2 words. 3. With this file size, stay clear of filters, like blur's etc. They just increase your file size. 4. Since I do a lot of graphic design & website creation, this may also help you. Try Gif Wizard at http://www.raspberryhill.com or since I do a fair bit of video and animation, try PhotoImage's Gif Animator, at http://www.ulead.comwhich also has a gif optimization, but beware depending on the file size the size may increase. I hope these will help you. Kim Elgie http://www.execulink.com/~webmom/ e-mail This email address is being protected from spam bots, you need Javascript enabled to view it ++++ new post - new topic ++++ From: "Dan Loyer" < This email address is being protected from spam bots, you need Javascript enabled to view it > Subject: Link hustling Hello to the discussion group from sunny San Clemente! We have a new site up (since Dec 96) and are generating leads and sales through the Link Exchange and the general search engine registries. However, I can't help but think that site traffic could be improved through mutual links between similar sites or even non-similar sites all over the web. All the books ad pundits say so! I guess I am not approaching it the right way, but I am finding it very difficult to get other sites to provide a link to my site. I find lots who would like me to provide a link to their site. Does anyone have any suggestions? As with most sites, we have limited budgets and cannot afford the cost of banner ads on the search engines or just about anywhere else. Thanks for the input. Dan ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dan Loyer http://www.ink-jet.com MVM Products, LLC This email address is being protected from spam bots, you need Javascript enabled to view it ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ==== INTRODUCTIONS ===================== From: Janet Jarosh < This email address is being protected from spam bots, you need Javascript enabled to view it > Organization: Citiusa the online store. Subject: Introduction -- And Banner Creation & Size Hello John Audette and Everyone. I just wanted to introduce myself and say a few words about the Link Exchange. Bo and I have a cool little online shop, featuring Gourmet Coffees and Herbal Teas, Spices, and more. We don't believe in being overly graphic intensive. In fact, our goal (actually Bo's goal) is to keep it under 20K. So we agree with LE that the banners should be 7K or less. We don't want our visitors backing out of our site before they get a chance to browse. And these visitors agree. We have a page with a drawing for a free case of tea, where we ask for comments about the site; and I would say 50% of them comment on how fast it downloads and how easy it is to maneuver around. Check us out at http://www.citiusa.com Now if you checked it out already, I need to explain that Bo just uploaded (totally against his will) a great animation today that he designed. It uses a little too much K right now, but I'm sure he is racking his brain to reduce something. I can see why LE doesn't allow animation. Anyone who has comments, questions, or needs reasonably priced animation, artwork, web pages, scanning, etc. contact This email address is being protected from spam bots, you need Javascript enabled to view it Keep up the good work LE and John. So far we're really happy with the Digest. Janet Jarosh This email address is being protected from spam bots, you need Javascript enabled to view it CITIUSA Online Shopping Mall Specifically Designed for New and Developing Businesses Web Design . Marketing . Animated Graphics . Brochures ==== BULLETIN BOARD ===================== From: "Scott Dial" < This email address is being protected from spam bots, you need Javascript enabled to view it > Subject: Public Thanks I just wanted to publicly thank each and every one that replied to the post I made regarding banner size.. The response has been overwhelming! (Over 50 responses so far!!!) I can hardly wait to sit down with these new tips and suggestions and see which I like the best. Thanks again for this support.. Sincerely, Scott Dial Sold Out Productions http://www.oklahoma.net/~soldout Oklahoma City, Oklahoma ++++ new post ++++ From: Fredrik Gillstrom < This email address is being protected from spam bots, you need Javascript enabled to view it > Subject: CTR and Banner design Lots of postings about ClickThroughRates and banner design last days. I just wanted to tip you all about a very nice site about this subject (not my page, but still good..;) http://www.photolabels.com/betterbanners.shtml //Fredrik Gillstrom ******************************************************************** ** CyberHits Free Counter Service ** Piett Free Guestbook Service ** ******************************************************************** ** http://www.freecounter.com ** http://www.piett.com ** ++++ new post ++++ From: Rebecca Staley < This email address is being protected from spam bots, you need Javascript enabled to view it > Subject: Keep up the good work! Just a short note to let you know that I enjoy the digest. I have a web site that links some of the best spots on the web. And by reading your digest, I not only come up with good tips and ideas, I find some good spots to check out. I personally think the ILE is doing a great job, and hate to see all these 'demands' about size etc. People need to realize this is a FREE service, and they should be happy that we have such a great program to advertise our sites free of charge. Beckie Staley The Intersection is the place to be! http://www.spektragraphics.com/~isection/ ++++ new post ++++ From: Kevin Martin < This email address is being protected from spam bots, you need Javascript enabled to view it > Subject: Re: LinkExchange Digest #004 I recently sent a suggestion to I-Sales, which John graciously published, and perhaps he will do so here as well. Anyone seeking Web hosting services should take a look at the editorially independent, comprehensive listings that Alex Chapman has put together at: http://budgetweb.com/budgetweb/ We (pair Networks) do happen to host his site, but I would recommend it in any case. And as you'll see, we are hardly the only choice listed there, nor are we the right choice for everyone. It depends on exactly what kind of services you need (design/maintenance services, heavy-duty back-end databases, a gimmicky file manager, etc - to each his own). Kevin Martin This email address is being protected from spam bots, you need Javascript enabled to view it http://www.pair.com/ World Class Web Hosting ==== FREE BANNER OFFERS ================ From: Valerie Voight < This email address is being protected from spam bots, you need Javascript enabled to view it > Subject: Free Banner volunteers Dear John: I just joined ILE and needed a banner. I tried using Banner Generator as suggested in your FAQ as well as the GIF Construction Kit, and found them both to be difficult, and unfriendly. Then, I went to your list of free banner volunteers, and started in the business section. All of them have incorrect listings: most charge, or take several weeks instead of days, or demand links back to them. Please see that the list gets updated so others don't waste time like I did. Then, I went to the general volunteers (either business or personal) and settled on ESDevelopment (http://www.esdevelopment.com). I got a snazzy, graphic-less banner back in about 2 hours! Now, they may not have been too busy, or my banner was very simple to create (as I'm sure it was - check it out at the bottom of the home page at http://www.vintagevault.com) but this company did a very professional looking banner for me. They requested, rather than demanded, that if I liked their banner, to please add a link back to them. Will I? Been there, done that, and with no hesitation! Thanks! Valerie ++++ new offer ++++ From: Getuwell < This email address is being protected from spam bots, you need Javascript enabled to view it > Organization: InfiNet Subject: Banner Service I have a free banner service at: http://members.tripod.com/~Breakaway00/Banlogo.htm Check It Out!!!!!! ++++ new offer ++++ From: Erik < This email address is being protected from spam bots, you need Javascript enabled to view it > Subject: Free Banners i make free banner, and they will be e-mailed to you in less then 2days please be as specific as possible and e-mail all requests to: This email address is being protected from spam bots, you need Javascript enabled to view it thanks, Erik Smith ++++ new offer ++++ Subject: Free banner creation. From: This email address is being protected from spam bots, you need Javascript enabled to view it (Eric L. Parrow) I will create LE banners for free. Visit my page or mailto: This email address is being protected from spam bots, you need Javascript enabled to view it or This email address is being protected from spam bots, you need Javascript enabled to view it Eric Parrow www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Pines/1154 |
