| LED Digest 2068: The Good, Bad, and Ugly in Site Design |
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================================================== The LED Digest Moderated Discussion List "Effective Online Advertising, Since 1997" pair Networks: The LED's Web Host Hosting and Domain Reg. from a Trusted Leader pair.com for Hosting | pairNIC.com for Domains ================================================== List Moderator: Published by: Adam Audette LED Digest adam, led-digest.com http://www.led-digest.com .............................................. January 5, 2006 Issue #2068 .............................................. .....IN THIS DIGEST..... ======= NEW ==================== --== The Good, Bad, and Ugly in Site Design ==-- ~ Tom Aman "...what some of us may see as bad design may have been forced on the designer..." ==== CONTINUING ================= --== Voice Over IP Technology ==-- ~ Marsha Kopan "...once they've made their billions are they going to raise their rates..?" --== Screen Display Sizing ==-- ~ Andreas Huttenrauch "[Don't] resize windows for people without giving them a choice." ~ Tom Anson "Maybe we could turn this discussion to why anyone might design in a fixed width..." ==== BILLBOARD =================== --== The 'Net Habit of Skimming ==-- ~ Michael Linehan =========== NEW ================================== From: Tom Aman Subject: The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly (was Display size) A number of us have been commenting (criticizing) the site Peter D'Aprix's initially refered to in LED 2064: (http://patinawoodfloors.com). We (myself included) are all good at finding problems with the designs of other people but we seldom comment on the good things about that same design. For example, I would like to say to Peter that, among other good points, the images on that site are excellent and really convey a feel of what the product is like and I apologize for coming on so strongly about some of the other things that I, personally, feel are problems. The trouble is that, when we do nothing but talk about the bad (in our own view) parts of a site design, we basically force the designer to to defend him / herself, regardless of their own real feeling about that particular aspect. We know nothing about the process that led to any particular design decision. While it may have been made on the spur of the moment or may be that designer's own approach to that aspect, it may also have resulted from hours and hours of discussion and a final decision by the client. Anyone who has ever done much site design will appreciate that. And you can't really expect the designer, whose site we happen to be picking for criticism at the moment, to say "I know it is bad but my idiot / stupid / silly / unreasonable client insisted we do it that way." - that would be a fast way to go out of business. Anyone who has ever designed a site for someone else, be it professionally as your major income source or casually to assist a friend, know that ultimately, after all the discussion, the client has the final say and that final say may not be the best approach. In fact, what some of us may see as bad design may have been forced on the designer and/or may actually be a brilliant compromise solution between what the client demands and what the designer knows is best. So here is something different to critique. I have three different sites that I would like fellow LEDers to give their thoughts on. These sites are being brought to your attention, each for a different reason. I am only going to mention one site here, I will point you to the other two in two future posts. The first site is called Fables, Fantasy and Fairy Tales. The owners (whom I have met - they live not far from me) sell porcelain dolls they make dressed up as fairies at a variety of higher end craft shows, as well as world wide via the Web (they have a large number of collector customers, my daughter-in-law included) and have been in this business for about 15 years. I know their product and the fairies are every bit as whimiscal as they appear on the site. They are also pricey because they take a lot of time to make. The site has won the Golden Web Award five years in a row and was designed and created by a local company. The site can be found at http://www.fairys.com/ (make sure you have your sound on). And if your browser settings are such that you don't see it, scroll to the bottom of the home page and look for a link on the lower right side that says "Click here for Media info" and follow that link. Even full screen, my browser does not show the link without scrolling because I have two special purpose toolbars installed. There is a Quicktime video on the page the link leads to that gives some real background info on the owners as well as other info about the site. Also, to enter the door into the Collectors Club, the password is "imagination". It is a fact that award winning sites are not always the best designed sites for surfing purposes so the questions here are: "In your view, is this award winning site well designed for the surfer and does it deserve the award?" "What is good and what is bad about it?". Tom Aman Aman Software http://www.cyberspyder.com ======== CONTINUING =============================== From: Marsha Kopan Subject: VoIP > Readers of LED will surely have at least a brush with > the VoIP technology... The features and facilities of VoIP > services are growing very fast every day. - Viggie Bala, LED 2057 I know that I'm piping in here a bit late on the VoIP thread but I'd like to make some commentary about VoIP. First, if you have a security system in your home or business you will want to make sure that you contact your security contractor right away. Alarm systems work best on POTS because they are analog. Over VoIP there is a potential for signals not getting to their destination. Secondly, you will want to ask your VoIP provider about 911 service. I know that the FCC was all over their case a few months ago and were given a mandate to "fix it" but I don't recall the time frame. The other thought is that they are coming in at a low price now but once they've made their billions are they going to raise their rates or come up with other gimmicks? Marsha Kopan, IVAA CVA, CRESS, PL Executive Secretarial Services www.execsecsrv.com Delegate, don't stagnate. ------- new post - new topic ------- From: Andreas Huttenrauch Subject: Display size I really don't see how you can equate a dislike for resizing the browser window with being a "control freak". That seems a little light :-). We've all spent years getting our computer settings to be just the way we like them, and browser window size is one of them. For someone to resize your window upon visiting their site, is more like a visitor to your house repainting your walls. I immediately leave such sites and will never return. Thanks to some lovely issues with Internet Explorer, it takes a long time for you to get your proper window size back and for it to be remembered again in the long run. My professional opinion on the subject is not to resize windows for people without giving them a choice. Andreas Huttenrauch Globi Web Solutions http://www.globi.ca ------- new post - same topic ------- From: Tom Anson Subject: Display size Hi Adam and other LED-ers, I think Tom Aman makes a very good point [issue 2065] about optimization for display sizes. "Optimized for... whom?!?" I have a 22" monitor that is set to 1600 X 1200, and I set my browser to view in landscape. But I still find a lot of websites out there that force me to resize my browser window because the table structure is "optimized" for such an expansive width. I set my browser for a width that gives me comfortable line widths for reading; but really, some of these websites look like they were designed by someone who didn't know that text editors can be set to wrap lines. I appreciate Mark Medlicott's question [issue 2061], > ... is this not a reason that you would design > in percentages and not pixels? I guess it's really no big issue for me (it WAS when I still designed in a system that only allowed fixed-width tables). Maybe we could turn this discussion to why anyone should / might design in a fixed width and workable alternatives for that. I realize, as well, that optimizing for a certain width doesn't necessarily mean that the page is fixed-width. It might just be designed to look best at a certain width. But then, you get into issues of text resizing by the visitor and a host of things I wouldn't even think about. That would seem to make such "optimization" something of a sad joke, wouldn't it? Taking a look at these issues (again) might not be a bad idea. Tom Anson Anson Aromatic Essentials ==== BILLBOARD =================================== From: Michael Linehan Subject: Skimming > Books... the vast majority are never cracked open, let > alone read. No reason to think websites would be much > different. Who do you know that reads lots of books? - Kathryn Martyn, LED 2067 Sorry Kathryn. In spite of the ;-0, I have to take issue with just about everything you say here. (Or if you meant these statements satirically, my apologies. I didn't think of that possibility until I had written the following.) Your statements strike me as very similar to the common marketing wisdom, "As we all know, you must keep sales letters short. No-one wants to read long sales letters." I come across people frequently who think this. In fact, I'd say most of my clients believe this, initially. But thinking this is true puts a severe limitation on anyone's ability to write effective copy. Claude Hopkins demonstrated very powerfully (around 1923) that the 'common sense' idea of brevity was not true at all. It has been demonstrated over and over since. Essentially, people will read any length of sales message IF the message has value in and of itself for the reader. From that comes the recommendation - make your message as long as it needs to be. If 10 words is the perfect length, then that is what it should be. If you need 10 pages, take them. Absolutely, edit the content so the skimmers can get the core messages easily --- but don't think everyone is a skimmer. Some people LOVE to read. Some people will REQUIRE deep detail before purchasing. Accommodate all of them: it's easy to do so. It's like face-to-face sales. Some people want to get down to it - give me the facts and let's get this done. Some people want to develop a relationship. Some people want to cross-examine you. A sales person who can only relate in one mode is going to have a rough time. Same on the Web. Part of the skill of a good Web copywriter will be to address the needs of various types of readers simultaneously. And one immediately practical point: if we were to cut down to skimmer level on "all those words", we'd have a very small site and probably zero search engine presence. Michael Linehan, Marketing Alchemy www.marketing-alchemy.com ------------------------------------------------------- The LED Digest is sponsored by pair Networks: pair.com for Hosting | pairNIC.com for Domains "Pretty much all the honest truth-telling there is in the world is done by children." - Oliver Wendell Holmes |
