Marketing & SEO Discussion List - LED Digest

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From: Renee Kennedy

Subject: Multiple sites

> I am thinking of creating additional "sister" web sites...

> The main site would still contain all products. On the

> new sites, I would enrich the content with useful articles...

        - Mark Roberts, LED 2073

I have some experience creating "sister sites."  I manage over 30

disease specific sites.  I started this project exactly one year

ago. Our company wanted to find out the exact answer to the

questions you are asking.

Currently, I cannot tell you whether or not it is better to create

several sites or just create one site and just work out "sections"

of one web site.

We linked all of the disease sites to our main corporate web site

(via a footer at the bottom of every single page).  At first, all

these links gave a boost to our Google PageRank raising it from a 5

to a 6.  However, that has since gone back to a 5.  Nor did we see

any more traffic to our main site from the PageRank boost.  We did

not link from the corp. site to the disease specific sites.  This is

because the links would not have made sense or have been appropriate.

We have linked the disease sites to one another where we felt it was

appropriate.  None of the disease sites are doing a great amount of

traffic, some are doing better than others, I'm still in the process

of analyzing why some sites are doing better than others.  Nothing

jumps out at me.  Possibly it's the content and the number of people

searching for that type of content.

One issue we ran into is that Editors at DMOZ told me that because

the corporate site had a listing that it would be unrealistic for me

to expect a listing for all the disease sites, as well.  I didn't

understand this philosophy as the disease sites really have nothing

to do with the corporate site content wise, nor are we linking from

the corp site to the disease sites.  But, I have been having a great

deal of success getting our sites listed in Zeal.

I'm promoting them all in a similar way - building out various types

of content, submitting to free directories, requesting a reciprocal

link, here and there.

My gut reaction is to say that when you first build these sites,

it's going to be a long road ahead because they will all be brand

new sites and they will have to overcome lack of content, lack of

links, lack of history.  So if you're looking for a quick fix, build

out one established site into sections.  However, I believe that in

the long run, it will be more valuable to have many niche sites with

plenty of content, links and history.  It's just that you need the

resources to build them up.  One year is definitely not enough time.

Renee Kennedy

http://www.e-healtharticles.com: Wanted authors and publishers!

------- new post - same topic -------

From: Jim Winters

Subject: Multiple sites

I, for one, strongly believe that multiple sites are a great

approach. We operate a number of sites that do exactly what you are

talking about. We have our "main" directory site at

www.qualitytrading.com and about 20 or more sites that are

accessible from there. Many of the products we sell are listed on

several of these sites with all sites leading into a common shopping

cart.

By doing this, we are able to focus keywords, content, meta tagging

and etc to a specific product line or category which, of course,

helps us to achieve better rankings. It also makes these individual

websites more relevant to the products that our customers are

searching for. Of course, we have them all interlinked which is a

grand way of cross selling and has proven to be very very successful.

One of the things we try to do is to maintain consistency throughout

the lay out of the websites and pages so that customers never feel

that they have been redirected or have left our "family" of websites.

By all means, I say go for it!

Sincerely,

Jim Winters

Quality Trading, Inc.

www.qualitytrading.com

------- new post - same topic -------

From: Diane Dennis

Subject: Multiple sites

> Every month when charge card bills come in, a few

> customers who don't recognize the name igoodz call

> asking why did we charge them money and who are we.

        - Mark Gering, LED 2074

Hi Mark!

We have this problem as well and while we haven't been able to make

it go away entirely we have been able to reduce the number of

queries made by folks who have forgotten how the charge will appear

on their card.

Approximately 2 weeks after we receive their order we send ONE

follow-up email that reminds the customer that the charge will

appear on their credit card statement as "Diane Dennis Enterprises".

It's important to note that we do not send any more email to the

customer unless they subscribe to our free newsletter, just the ONE

email reminder about the charge. (And we've never received a

complaint about this reminder email either :).

Have an outstanding day and thank you everyone for the wonderful

help and suggestions in the LED, and to Adam for all your time! :)

Diane Dennis

http://www.thecontractorsgroup.com

------- new post - new topic ------

From: Ronni Rhodes

Subject: Learning

> ... my concern was specific to this well-founded

> Digest only, not the universe of knowledge.

        - Salem Kashou, LED 2074

I don't like to belabor this, but I'm not even sure I understand

Salem's concern.

Is he looking for a more "threaded" discussion where each post

follows the same topic?

Or is he looking for more "in depth" information than he's currently

reading?

The nature of an e-mail based forum is to cover a varied number of

topics currently of concern to the members.  Sometimes there are

many responses; sometimes there are only a few.

I've never seen a request for more information go unanswered on LED.

 (In fact, we can get verbose when we get wound up.:-))

I'm sure I can't be the only one who's not quite sure what the issue

actually is.

Kind regards,

Ronni Rhodes

Ignite Your Site with Sound and Motion!

http://www.wbcimaging.com

------- new post - same topic -------

From: Peter D'Aprix

Subject: Learning

Dear Adam

While I agree with almost everyone's points of view on Sheryl's rude

and aggressive post, I don't think it should have been denied

publication however. Judging by the number of resulting posts,

perhaps Sheryl indirectly gave us something to ponder.

If anyone has read "The World Is Flat" (and you all should!), it is

quite evident that the number of isolated individuals working in

their own space, often at home alone or in little booths, whose

working environment becomes less filled with human face to face

interaction and more and more contact via computer, monitor and

headset, we all may tend to forget that there is a living,

breathing, feeling and often frustrated and insecure person at the

other end of the "send" button. Often from a completely different

culture, native language and time zone.

So as one post has said, we should re-read our posts before sending

them and put ourselves in the place of the person receiving them and

ask ourselves if we would want to receive a communication like this.

After all, there will always be people out there who know a lot more

than we do and a lot who know less. If there is one thing about this

field that is always true, nothing remains the same for long, so

constant learning and a steep learning curve will always be part of

our daily reality. As frustrating as it can be at time, this is what

this old fart loves about this field. Keep you learning and learning

keeps your mind alert.

Frankly, I think it would be even better if we saved each of our

submissions as a draft and read it again the next day before sending

it. Not just for LEDers, but probably for any email or posts that

deal with issues rather than just digital letters. It is too easy to

leave basic civility aside as we are focused on problem solving.

Most cultures have a commonly accepted set of social rules that

apply in face to face meetings that set the tone of civility,

designed to grease the skids. The French shake hands and address the

gathering with a welcome. Some offer beverages or food. Some discuss

the weather. Ask after family. Americans tend to get the

non-essentials out of the way quickly and get right to work. I am

afraid the internet model emulates the American style rather than

the more civil style of most of the rest of the world. Perhaps we

need to take a deep breath and remind ourselves that it is not a

machine we are interacting with, but other human beings.

We do, indeed, work in an ever more stressful, time pressured world

and working environment. Our computers constantly irritate us,

deadlines breath down our necks, clients make us do things exactly

the way it should not be done but they are paying the bills and when

we do it their way and it doesn't work they blame us. And so on.

Sometimes it is hard not to be snappy. If we indulge ourselves it

this and allow it to express itself outside the family (who we all

know have an endless supply of patience with our frustrations!), it

will spill over into our business relationships which is not good.

It can alienate associates which is counter productive to our best

interests. It also makes a negatively charged atmosphere. Also

counter productive. Is there a cyber Emily Post out there? Maybe

their time has arrived.

Since it looks as though we are going to be living with this style

of working for the foreseeable future, this may be the time to

establish for ourselves an internet civility that will enrich all

our lives and lubricate the digital interaction. Especially since we

may well be working modem to modem with task members from many

diverse cultures where basic politeness is taken for granted and

lack thereof is a severe affront and is likely to deplete a good

working and ongoing relationship.

So civility is good for us personally and good for business. Cheap

at the price.

So, cutting a bit of slack, Sheryl was probably having some bad

days, couldn't snap at her client, didn't want to hit the kid, had

to restrain herself from attacking her computer with a hammer, was

still on hold after 30 minutes with a telephone software support

number and without meaning to, took it out on the Digest. A lesson

for us all. Sheryl I could be all wet, but I think we have all been

there, so applicable or not, your post is a useful reminder to all

of us.

On the other hand...

Some of the posts in response to themes brought up by other posters

and myself included, have been a spew of personal preferences of how

the responder likes to do things or encounter things him / herself.

While this has surely been of help to me, for one, in refining my

own thinking, it would be far more useful for our community, if the

post(s) of this nature had been rethought and presented as more of a

dispassionate and scientific observation based on experience with

the market, with years of observing site visitor behavior, siting

examples to illustrate ideas or technical applications with links to

them for us all to see and links to other articles discussing

further the topic in question. These are the posts that help us

learn from each other and isn't that what we value about this great

discussion opportunity? Learning and refining. Hard to do by

yourself; very helpful to have input whether you agree with it or

not.

And this is not about all of us agreeing on any topic, Salem, it is

about the learning that can take place in a free exchange of ideas.

It is not a "how to" book but a brain storming. I agree with you

though, it is not constructive to trash ideas; but it is

constructive to debate them in a civil manner.

Peter D'Aprix

http://peterdaprix.com

------- new post - same topic -------

From: Steve Pronger

Subject: Learning

> The responses posted in 2071 were good examples

> of what I was expecting. The discussion to help "improve

> this forum" was ignored while the question itself was dissected.

        - Salem Kashou LED 2074

Sorry we disappointed you. Could it be that most of the members of

this forum don't actually think it needs improving?

I'm a little confused as to exactly what Salem is expecting. This

forum (any forum?) is comprised entirely of opinions, ideas, advice

and questions from its readers. Having been a reader for some time

now I can tell you that there is a wealth of experience out there.

Many LEDers operate successful web businesses. There will never be

consensus on every issue and I for one hope that continues to be the

case.

Crikey, can you imagine a LED where everyone agreed on every issue?

How dull!

Salem, you're a marketing manager, so how about making your own

contribution to "improve this forum" by posting your own experience

and advice, rather attempting to pull everyone else into line?

> Is anybody out there brave enough to tackle

> the issue, with vision? If not, don't respond.

Sorry, but I find myself being a little irked by that statement.

Don't know how other LEDers feel, but I don't like being told to

"not respond". Reminds me of the time a LEDer contacted me off-list

to tell me I was WRONG and that I should not make any further posts

lest someone actually take my advice. My response to him was rather,

well, intense. Adam wouldn't have published it in a fit.

Salem, take from LED what you will. Make your own judgments as to

the validity and usefulness of the posts. Agree or disagree. Ask

questions. Add your own 2 cents. But don't tell me what I can or can

not say.

Steve Pronger

http://www.stevepronger.com

==== BILLBOARD ===================================

From: Tom Aman

Subject: Scam

> I just received a rather strange email. My first thought

> was that it was just another twist of the Nigerian letters...

        - Tom Anson, LED 2074

Hi Adam

I know I already sent in a couple of posts on this subject, but

since I received 5 more variations in my email this morning

(Saturday), I thought it might be worth passing on some more info

that I found about them.

According to these emails, I have won 3 lotteries (for a total of

3.5 million), been asked to assist in the slightly illegal transfer

of a small fortune out of South Africa (my share is to be 1.8

million), and been asked to be the penpal and soul mate to a lovely

Russian young woman (who would later tell me about an inheritance

that she needed help in retrieving, my share would likely be another

big chunk of money or maybe the young woman in person).

They are all variations of the Nigerian 419 or advance fee scam.  At

some point in the scam, the victim is asked to send money for some

purpose such as legal fees, lawyers fees, or any of a number of

other reasons.  If the info here saves even one person for falling

for one of these scams, it will be worth it.  Also, I suggest

passing this info on to all your friends, relatives and

acquaintances because every once in awhile a normally cautious

person might give in or fall for an approach they have never seen

before. Obviously, from Tom Anson's post, although he was

suspicious, it sounds like he did wonder, for a minute, if it might

be for real.

Regarding his post in particular, I quote the opening lines of the

email:

"My name is Mrs. Marie O'Sullivan. I am a dying woman who had

decided to donate what I have to you for charitable purposes."

This is actually known as the "dying widow" variation.  Other

variations include the "dying rich merchant", the "dead customer",

etc.

The "your email address has won a lottery" emails are another

variation. One group of emails that I found on the Internet show a

typical example of what happens if you respond.  In that case, the

"winner" was required to open a special foreign bank account into

which the "winnings" would be deposited.  The account types ranged

from "regular" to "platinum" and each had certain limits as to how

much of the "winnings" could be transfered into the account

initially and each week or month thereafter.  The "platinum" account

would let the entire sum be transfered.  To open one of these

accounts, the "winner" was required to deposit various amounts of

money, the smallest amount being $1,500 for a "regular" account up

to $4,500 for a "platinum" account.  This is just a variation on the

"advance fee" scam. You can read the details of this at

http://www.joewein.de/sw/419-gulf-atlantic.htm.

One "marker" that should instantly say "be careful" is the phone

number in the email.  Numbers starting +31 6 are Netherlands MOBILE

phone numbers (would a legitimate company give you a mobile phone

number as a contact point?).  Numbers starting +44 (UK),

particularly +44 70.. will probably forward, unknown to the caller,

to Nigeria.  +234 numbers are Nigerian.

Another scam starts with an email that opens something like:

"I'm the first time in the Internet cafe. My first name is Ol'ga and

I'm 28 years old. I live in Russia and all that years I tried to

find my pen-pal"

The email goes on for a few more lines with a strong "come hither"

appeal and includes a picture of a lovely young woman.  This is the

"sweetheart" variation of the 419 scam.  If I responded, she would

correspond for a bit. Then, later she will mention that her father

died leaving millions of dollars deposited with a securities company

and will provide contact details for a "lawyer" who will handle the

inheritance. Inevitably this "lawyer" or the "bank" or "securities

company" will ask for thousands of dollars in advance fees.

PLEASE take time to check out all the information available at

http://www.joewein.de/sw/419scam.htm to get a much more complete

idea of all the things these scammers may try.  Once you understand

all the variations it makes it much easier to be able to pick out

new ones.  Don't fall for any of them.

Tom Aman

Aman Software

http://www.cyberspyder.com

------- new post - new topic -------

From: Mike Banks Valentine

Subject: Google

> Recently, one of my sites has totally disappeared from Google

> and I haven't made any changes to its content. I am baffled.

        - Marsha Kopan, LED 2074

Marsha,

You didn't say what the search terms you are targeting. Both of your

sites are still indexed by Google. They may not be ranking for

specific search phrases you are targeting, but both show pages of

each site indexed.

Using your home page title tags as a guide and doing a search for

Virtual Assistant Services" shows one site ranking at #7 on page one

of results at Google for that phrase. Again, the second domain,

using the phrase in your title tag of the home page, "Association

Management Resources", has you ranked at #1 at Google for that

phrase.

Either you did a search and made a typo in the search box - or you

checked during a hiccup at Google which briefly dropped your site

from the results (hiccups happen). When that happens, best to double

check your results by either having a friend in another city or

state check your phrase for you, thus getting results from another

of Goolge's data centers or by waiting a week before checking again.

Unless you are doing some serious search engine spamming, it is

extremely rare that anyone has "totally disappeared from Google".

Simple query to see if your site is indexed, regardless of your rank

for any particular search phrase. Go to Google and type

"site:www.execsecsrv.com" (without quote marks) and you'll see that

it lists 18 pages indexed. Do the same with the second domain name

"site:www.associationmanagementresources.com" and you'll see 5 pages

indexed.

Good luck with those targeted phrases!

Mike Banks Valentine

http://www.seoptimism.com/SEO_Contact.htm

------- new post - same topic ------

From: Will Bontrager

Subject: Google

Marsha, I'm no SEO expert, but I can let you know something that's

been happening with a "page 1" web site of ours.

The site has consistently been on page 1 for over some years, until

recently.

4-6 months ago, it disappeared to page neversee for both terms. A

week later, it was back for one term. Some days after that, for both

terms.

A few weeks later it happened again. Then several more times.

The page sometimes comes back low on the page. Sometimes high.

Currently, it's at #3 for one term and #1 for another. But I don't

expect things to remain static.

Your sites may come back to their top 10 place. I've learned to be

patient with the Goog. Sometimes its dancing takes it all the way to

the other side of the floor. But it has always returned for us.

Off topic: Adam, I must say LED has suddenly improved. I've been

getting caught up on my programming and hadn't read LED for about a

month. Just starting to tackle the unread issues.

Congratulations to you and your posters. Very well done!

Will Bontrager

http://stocktickerbox.com/

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