| LED Digest 2106: Web Rates, Javascript, Outsourcing and more |
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================================================== The LED Digest Moderated Discussion List "Effective Online Advertising, Since 1997" pair Networks: The LED's Web Host Hosting and Domain Reg. from a Trusted Leader pair.com for Hosting | pairNIC.com for Domains ================================================== List Moderator: Published by: Adam Audette LED Digest adam, led-digest.com http://www.led-digest.com .............................................. February 28, 2006 Issue #2106 .............................................. .....IN THIS DIGEST..... ==== CONTINUING ================= --== Drop-Down Menus & Search Engines ==-- ~ James Miller "You can always use a site map..." ~ Stephen Mareches "Your best bet is to use text hyperlinks..." ~ Robert Bedard "...crawlers cannot crawl the [javascript] links..." --== Outsourcing ==-- ~ Rick Gortatowsky "Outsourcing is simply one symptom of the disease." --== AOL & Yahoo to Charge for Email? ==-- ~ Reg Charie "...if AOL and Yahoo are successful with their ploy, other email providers will not be far behind." <Moderator Comment> ==== BILLBOARD =================== --== US Website Maintenance Rates? ==-- ~ Tamra Heathershaw-Hart ~ Beth Earle --== The LED Archives ==-- ~ Cheryl Berry ======== CONTINUING =============================== From: James Miller Subject: Drop-downs > Do you have any suggestions for how to maximize > the SE friendliness of the Java script necessary to > have my navigation in drop-down menus? - Sandy Keller, LED 2105 I actually don't like java-script menus, as I prefer everything to be just one click to get from page to page. Some are good, but others are definitely not that. So I tend to have a two level menu, which I put across the top of the page under the banner, with traditional tool-tips. As these days I tend to design all web sites to A4 pages so they can be easily printed, it works well. But you really want to make sure that the web site gets entwined properly around the search engines. So I always make a web site a series of individual pages with their own URLs, just like most of the BBC's web site. And then make sure that all pages are linked from the home page that is submitted to the search engine. (One of the reasons, I wrote my Web Site Spider, was to check that all pages are linked to the home page, even if the route is rather long!) If you are using a complicated java-script and it is not obvious to the search engine how you get to certain pages, then make sure you have some links in the text. You can always use a site map, which on some web sites, is the best way to find the page you want anyway. James Miller Daisy Analysis www.daisy.co.uk ------- new post - same topic ------ From: Stephen Mareches Subject: Drop-downs Sandy, This is a very pertinent question. Several years ago we were developing JavaScript drop down menus and came to the understanding they aren't intelligible to search engines who are trying to index your pages. You are correct, pictures for navigation don't serve up much for the search engines except what is in their ALT tags. But JavaScript drop downs are even less likely to provide them with what they want because they do not index scripts and all the hyperlinks in your drop downs will be in script, essentially hiding their content from search engine spiders. Your best bet is to use text hyperlinks; you may spice these up a bit by using relevant keywords within the text of the hyperlinks. For example a hyperlink with "Gulf Shores Vacation Rentals" in it will do much more for you than "Vacation Rentals" in a hyperlink. Stephen Mareches, Web Consultant Sophia Solutions www.sophiasolutions.net ------- new post - same topic ------ From: Robert Bedard Subject: Drop-downs I use Javascript navigation on one of my sites; crawlers cannot crawl the links because of the way the Javascript is coded. I use a site map to accomplish two things: one, it allows SE crawlers to index the entire site despite the Javascript navigation; two, it allows people with Javascript disabled in their browers for security reasons, to navigate the site. At the bottom of every page, is a link to the site map. It clearly says the purpose for the site map is to facilitate navigation for people with Javascript disabled in their browsers. So far, I have not taken a penalty on this, I have #1 in Google SERPs for a number of keywords that all appear on second-level pages (ie: "hidden" from crawlers, other than by using the site map.) (phal flasks, phal stems, etc.) Robert Bedard ------- new post - new topic ------ From: Rick Gortatowsky Subject: Outsourcing First I'd like to thank Mark Roberts for his insight and his kind words about my post in LED 2101. I am in virtual (lol) agreement with his statements as well as posted in LED 2103. While I do not teach programming or web design I have had my fill of being brought in after the fact to fix shall we say, "disturbed webs". On topic offshore outsourcing of technology jobs related to the computer industry as I noted in LED 2101 is really no different than that of other forms of job outsourcing. In these threads I fail to see mention for example of the fact that the electronics that make these lil' bugger's tick is almost fully made overseas. GM corporation has plants in China that are pumping out automobiles for the Asian market at maximum capacity yet here in the US of A this is not the case. The US economic situation is forcing businesses of scale to utilize offshore labor to stay competitive and meet the expectations of shareholders, markets and channel partners. It is important to again note that there is no solution in sight unless the USA makes a fairly radical change in the core of this nations ways. Basic needs of the people need be met in logical fashions. Health care, higher education, shelter and then some need be provisions of the society not features thereof of a society that some can afford and others not. Additionally there must be ways to not only encourage but force citizens to be productive. Other nations are rearing their youngsters towards directed careers starting at early ages and they will be productive citizens. People reading these LED's on offshore outsourcing need to broaden their peripheral vision. Outsourcing is simply one sympton of the disease. Cures do not come by solving a sympton they come by solving the disease. What can people in the USA do though? We all feel like we have no say, powerless. The best we hear is the next election vote for the other party. Kinda like a choice between milk or cheese but both make you sick if your lactose intolerant :) LOL. What people in the USA need to do is perform a level of nationalism in purchasing. If you have 10 people aroung a campfire and 6 of those people are taking burning logs off as well as taking logs to put on and bringing them to other campers fires what happens? The four left scramble to find logs and keep the fire burning but never get a leg up on it. Eventually it will go out or eventually those four will go beat up some other campers and take theirs. Welcome to the new global economy and globalization :) If 15% of expendable incomes for every US citizen were spent on actual US goods from US businesses our economy would be booming! Thats what it takes. It takes consumers thinking about purchasing. It takes perhaps some research so when I purchase my Corn Flakes I know that the money stays in our economy. Lastly it takes people sending clear messages BY purchasing to US companies, "We will not stand for your company investing heavily abroad unless said areas of investment also invest in us". That is to say we are happy business A will invest in China as long as business A sends the clear message to Chinese business that they will reciprocate and invest in us. Globalization can work if said advantages thereof are reciprocal. Mutually beneficial relationships. This is not what's happening. Instead it is appearing more and more like we need go beat up other campers and take their logs. Rick Gortatowsky ------- new post - new topic ------ From: Reg Charie Subject: Email charging > ... ALL of the subscribers to this list are not on AOL > or on Yahoo. A good portion of them are, but nothing > in the ballpark you are talking about. - Andrew Bourland, LED 2105 If you are going to quote me, Andrew, please keep it in context. In LED 2095 I said: "While it is true that this is a small amount, look what it would mean to lists like this LED Digest if other ISPs follow suit. Assuming a membership of 75,000 being emailed their LED Digest fix 5 times a week, this would cost the list owners $195000 a year at a penny a pop." Please note the "if other ISPs follow suit" which is the key modifier. I feel that if AOL and Yahoo are successful with their ploy, other email providers will not be far behind. Thank You, Reg Charie www.dotcom-productions.com/cms <Moderator Comment> I may be the culprit here... sometimes when I'm whizzing along putting together the LED I take liberties with quotes -- solely in the interest of brevity and clarity. Trying to whittle down a multi-paragraph post to a few lines usually leaves something out, which may have happened here. Sorry. ==== BILLBOARD =================================== From: Tamra Heathershaw-Hart Subject: Web rates > Can anyone tell me what sort of per-hour rates are the > norm in the US for website maintenance work such as > content amendments, addition / deletion of pages, images, etc? - Gurdip Singh, LED 2102 Before I post our fees I'd like to point out what clients expect from us for that amount. FYI, we've been designing, building, and maintaining web sites since 1995. Much of our web maintenance work is for fast-track tech companies or companies with high-end marketing needs -- only a few mom-and-pops want or need the level of service we offer. When our clients ask for an update to their web site they expect that: 1) we can update the HTML text, any behind-the-scenes scripts / code, and any and all graphics, and can design new graphics and provide professional-grade royalty-free photography where needed. 2) before starting work we will download the latest version of any / all pages from the server in case they've had someone in-house working on the site, and we'll make a complete CD backup of the page / section we're working on before we make any changes. 3) we'll place the updated page(s) on a staging server for review and approval before uploading to the live website (and rarely does a client have a staging server so this means we usually have to stage a nearly-complete copy of their entire site on a hosting account that we're paying for). 4) we can work with whatever Content Management System they have, no matter how obscure and no matter what sort of security hoops we have to jump through (e.g. IP-tunnels through their firewall, that sort of thing) 5) we'll keep any unreleased information about the client unreleased -- treating their secrets as our secrets. 6) we'll notice if their changes contradict something on another page, will be aware of any usability issues with the changes they're suggesting, and will point out if there's a better (or more sales-worthy or SEO-friendly) way to say or show something. 7) we'll understand their industry and how their products work, and will keep enough of an eye on their competition to know if the changes look too much like the competition's site or aren't as "good" as what the competition is doing. 8) we'll complete the changes in a minimum amount of calendar time, even if that means weekend or evening work, and will let them know immediately if there will be any problems or delays. 9) if we make a mistake we'll "mea culpa" and make it right no matter what it takes, and we'll even catch their mistakes (like wrong dates on trade shows or wrong emails on press releases) before updating the website. Our web update / maintenance clients also expect us to design everything from brochures to tradeshow booths, and expect professional-quality photography and video skills as well. We're expected to know about any part of copyright or trademark law that applies to the web, and to be able to open any file they send no matter how old or what software was used to create it. They also expect that we'll be up-to-date on the latest in SEO tactics, will know how to program / code for every possible browser and on every OS, that we're experts in banner and PPC advertising, can give telephone tech support when they download a virus or can't figure out how to resize a photograph, and have seen every web site that's ever existed. And finally, they expect that our power never goes out and our internet connection never goes down (don't I wish). We currently charge $75 to $100 per hour, with the $100/hour clients getting priority turn-around. Tamra Heathershaw-Hart www.crendo.com -------- new post - same topic -------- From: Beth Ann Earle Subject: Web rates Hi, Adam The only reason I didn't respond is because our rates seem to be higher than many others, and I didn't want to steer Gurdip the wrong way. We charge $100 an hour for graphic design and project management; $125 for optimization; our clients are mostly b2b manufacturers, and the rate is comfortable enough for our target market within that group. Our minimum edits charge is $62.50 (basically the charge for a half hour), and I always tell clients to bunch up their edits and have us do them in a group, rather than one by one -- we can get a lot done in half an hour. We also perform bi-monthly audits (at no additional charge) of the sites we host to make sure everything is still working right. If we find minor things wrong (a bad link, a missing image -- how does that happen, anyway? -- etc.), we fix that at no charge to the site owner. We don't advertise the fixing-at-no-charge part, but we do let them know afterwards that we performed the audit and made a few changes. Regards, Beth Earle www.pilotfishseo.com -------- new post - new topic -------- From: Cheryl Subject: LED archives > I couldn't find any of the archived issues in Yahoo or MSN though. Can anyone identify these archived pages as a backlink to their site? - Steve Pronger, LED 2105 Steve - I couldn't find any of the archives on Yahoo! or MSN either but regularly come across LEDs while researching our site placement on Google. Based on your post, I specifically Googled audettemedia.com bookkeepinghelp.com and then reviewed the more results. Of the 30-40 results, none appear to be backlinked to our site but I see why. Here's a January 04 archive with our URL and yours. http://snipurl.com/n0f0 [list.audettemedia.com] Yours is backlinked due to the http://. Browsers typically read http://anything as a hyperlink. Want to test it? Visit a site that allows a free post - say craigslist.org - enter a URL with and without the http://. One will link, one won't. How silly was I not to have done this before? :) Cheryl Berry http://www.bookkeepinghelp.com ------------------------------------------------------- The LED Digest is sponsored by pair Networks: pair.com for Hosting | pairNIC.com for Domains © Copyright 1995-2006 Orange Wheel, LLC. All Rights Reserved. "The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears." - American Indian Proverb |
