| LED Digest 2199: The Politics of Search |
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List Moderator: Published by:
Adam Audette LED Digest
adam, led-digest.com http://www.led-digest.com
..............................................
July 10, 2006 Issue no. 2199
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.....IN THIS DIGEST.....
==== CONTINUING =================
--== Google "Miserable Failure" Search ==--
~ Tommy Powell
"This is about returning accurate results."
~ Mark Medlicott
"...Google has been throwing up very erroneous
results here in New Zealand too."
~ Lew Vividere
"...there is really something wrong when searches
return such results."
--== Selling on Amazon ==--
~ Wes Hopper
"This thread is based upon a common confusion
with the meaning of the word 'fair'..."
~ Charles Oertel
"I am pretty sure that Google's rankings are
done totally fairly..."
==== BILLBOARD ===================
--== Email Pirates ==--
~ Carrie Cassidy
~ John Quinlan
~ John Smart
======== CONTINUING ===============================
From: Tommy Powell
Subject: Failure Search
> Most of the responses on this particular subject seem to
> be ringing in on a political note. This is NOT a political issue.
> It is a search engine issue that is starting to concern me.
- Mark Roberts, LED 2198
Mr. Roberts is dead on: when the "haters" and "lovers" get over
their haggling about the results of this Google bomb they should
remember why we all read this newsletter. It's not politics; it's
not about free speech. This is about returning accurate results.
If a cat lover (who despises dogs) manages to have "helpful canine
information" searches point to a feline site, he/she has not
exercised free speech but have abused a system that advertises
accurate organic results. Why Google has allowed this to go on for
as long as it has only shows that their agenda is more important
than their business.
Just my nickle's worth.
Tommy Powell
Professional Pest Control Products
-------- new post - same topic --------
From: Mark Medlicott
Subject: Failure search
Hi LED'ers
I am not going on an anti Google campaign here, but along with Mark
Roberts comments about the results he is seeing, I also have noticed
that over the last few months, especially since the last update (Big
Daddy?), Google has been throwing up very erroneous results here in
New Zealand too.
I often read, and hear mentioned about the push for localised
search. Recently I had a customer complain because for an area
specific search (bed and breakfast timaru) their website only
appeared on about page 6 in Google. Instead of trying to explain
(and totally confuse my client) some of the intricacies of the
SERPs, I asked her to see if she could find any competitors in
higher positions. I checked before saying this. She did find about 3
actual websites in the SERPs ahead of her, and nearly all the 50 odd
other results were directories, yellow pages, etc. most of whom are
not even from our region.
Now, I asked her to perform the same search in msnxtra (NZ msn
search) and yahoo. The results came up with actual locations and
websites (oh, and she was on the first page) that we both thought
were of more use to a person looking for accommodation in Timaru.
So my point? I believe also that Google's current algorithm is not
returning SERPs that are as useful as when they first managed to get
everybody to use them as their search engine. I believe that they
may have more information indexed, but if I have to surf pages of
results to find what I am after, and others like me do also, that
Google will soon lose its share of the searchers.
Now should I put my name and website address to this? Will Google
put me on a list of people to watch? (Ok, So I re-watched Conspiracy
Theory on DVD the other night)
Its a free world (well where I live)
Regards
Mark Medlicott
Medlicott Design
-------- new post - same topic --------
From: Lew Vividere
Subject: How can this be?
I am searching for realtors in my area and used this search term in
Google: "dakota county minnesota hobby farm realtor." The sixth
listing is:
The page has a graphic on it and the words: "Minnesota Real Estate -
Agent Directory by Real estate Agents Minnesota. "
That is it... even the meta tags are pretty bare:
Title - Minnesota Real Estate Agents
Description - Considering Minnesota? Find a Minnesota Real Estate
Agent Directory Here!
Keywords - Minnesota Real Estate, Minnesota Homes for sale, Realtor,
Real Estate
There is nothing on the page that matches Dakota County or hobby
farm. It only hit on two of the six words I entered.
As has been discussed before, there is really something wrong when
searches return such results.
Lew Vividere
-------- new post - new topic ---------
From: Wes Hopper
Subject: Amazon selling
> Do the bigger companies with higher sales get
> better placement? Yes. Is it fair? Maybe / Maybe Not
> - either way, BUSINESS IS NOT ABOUT BEING FAIR.
- Scott Marino, LED 2196
This thread is based upon a common confusion with the meaning of the
word "fair" - confusing it with "equal." As they used to say on the
old Laugh-In show, "Look it up in your Funk & Wagnalls" and when you
do, you find that fair means "according to rules, principles, etc."
From that, we see both sides of this argument are wrong. Business is
indeed about being fair, and Amazon is being quite fair when they
rank the sellers by sales. They have decided that their principle is
that the sellers that serve the most customers get the highest
placement, most likely because that benefits the most buyers and
produces the highest revenue for Amazon.
Do we all run our businesses on principle? I'm sure we do, although
the principles might differ sometimes. We're all fair, or attempt to
be, and so is Amazon.
Wes Hopper
-------- new post - same topic --------
From: Charles Oertel
Subject: Amazon selling
Dear Scott Marino,
I do not wish to engage in a one-on-one discussion (or argument) on
a public list.
Please note that I did not accuse you or your business of any
wrong-doing. What I did (mean to) say is that I refuse to do
business with anybody who does not play fair - whether it is in the
name of business or not.
A quick look at the dictionary shows 'fair' to mean:
- - Having or exhibiting a disposition that is free of favoritism or
bias; impartial: a fair mediator.
- - Consistent with rules, logic, or ethics;
I couldn't find any references to socialism or capitalism in the
dictionary definition of 'fair'. I also did not find 'fair' to mean
'equal'. To me (as I am sure it is to you), paying employees fairly
implies paying the better and harder workers more than the others.
Nowhere did I imply 'equally'.
I am pretty sure that Google's rankings are done totally fairly -
using an emotionless computer to rank sites using an algorithm that
uses the same rules for everybody. If a site gets less traffic than
another, it is because it deserves to get less based on a totally
impartial (i.e. fair) application of the rules. Disagreeing with
the rules does not make their application unfair.
If you stand by your statement that "business is not about being
fair" then you are implying that you treat some customers and
suppliers differently according to random preferences and whims, and
not a consistent set of criteria. Would you do business with
somebody like that?
Kind regards,
Charles Oertel
finebushpeople.co.za
==== BILLBOARD ===================================
From: Carrie Cassidy
Subject: Email pirates
> If your domain has a "wild card" box, it becomes
> very convenient for spammers to use arbitrary or
> role addresses... Get rid of "wild card" acceptance.
- John "Zeke" Brumage, LED 2198
Being slightly technically challenged... I would dearly LOVE to know
just how to do this! Any suggestions? Do we somehow set it
ourselves when we make our email addresses?
Carrie Cassidy
-------- new post - same topic --------
From: John Quinlan
Subject: Email pirates
To answer several points made by readers, if you have too much time
on your hands report the spammers to their hosts in Korea or China
but it will a total waste of time as nothing will be done. It has
been my feeling for quite a while now that the providers condone
their actions and may well be party to it.
There will be more benefit by reporting the spam by forwarding it in
full to
This email address is being protected from spam bots, you need Javascript enabled to view it
, they at least do something about it. I report
every single spam message I get to them ( I do it in bulk 20 at a
time as attachments ), so much so that I am in fear of having them
think that I am spamming them.
Return email addresses are sometimes spoofed maliciously, if you
have ever done anything towards fighting spam / phishing remember at
all times to use either a throw away address or do it anonymously.
These spammers are a vindictive lot and earn hundreds of thousands
by their activities and will do anything to protect their “business”
as I found once to my costs.
I am part of the team of volunteers that work to shut down phishing
sites at PIRT, and once when posting a sample of a 419, I missed
deleting my email address from one of the instances in the header of
an email I had received. As a result my email address was used as a
reply address for millions of spam messages to teach me a lesson. It
took months and a lot of time to get it sorted, so be warned.
If you get any phishing emails please report them here,
http://www.castlecops.com/pirt it only takes a few seconds, or
simply forward the email in full to
This email address is being protected from spam bots, you need Javascript enabled to view it
Thanks guys
John Quinlan
-------- new post - same topic --------
From: John Smart
Subject: Email pirates
We get this a lot.
The one that hits us the most is if I am hosting Mousestuff.com on
our server, a simple look up tool will show that Mousestuff.com is a
part of internetdesign.com/ Spammers then mail likely addresses
(info@ sales@ support@ domain) showing the spam coming from
internetdesign.com. I send out regular announcements letting clients
know that we have nothing to do with it.
Also, mail bombing is still the sport of spammers they pick your
domain, then e-Mail hundreds of randomnames@your domain.com on a
domain where I have a catchall account (will accept any thing @ that
domain.com) I sometimes get streams of spams. If I didn’t have the
catchall, chances are that one or two of those would hit me.
The only complete solution is a good spam filter but they are hard
to find!
John Smart
InternetDesign.com - A Human Touch in a Digital World
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