| LED Digest 2206: Horses for Courses |
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List Moderator: Published by:
Adam Audette LED Digest
adam, led-digest.com http://www.led-digest.com
.............................................
July 19, 2006 Issue no. 2206
.............................................
.....IN THIS DIGEST.....
==== CONTINUING =================
--== Fixed Width vs Fluid Web Sites ==--
~ Maty Matyszak
"We're back to horses for courses here..."
~ Veronica Yuill
"[Don't] assume that everyone runs their
browser full-screen."
~ Brad Waller
"The only way to control the look is to
have a fixed size."
~ Derek Andrews
"...CSS layout [should] allow for min and max
attributes for widths of columns etc."
--== Reciprocal Linking + Paid Links ==--
~ Michael Martinez
"The most well-publicized penalty was for
O'Reilly's paid links."
~ Dirk Johnson
"And I am quite willing to share our approach
and tactics with anyone."
==== BILLBOARD ===================
--== Web Design Marketplace ==--
~ Cheryl Berry
--== Pro Bono Web Design ==--
~ Dr. Mani Sivasubramanian
======== CONTINUING ===============================
From: Maty Matyszak
Subject: Fixed Width or Fluid?
We're back to horses for courses here. We worked on an educational
site with a fixed width design, and found that it gave horrendous
problems to students who preferred to print and then read the pages
(somehow 'printable page' links passed our university level students
by...). At other times fluid design caused a mess when the page was
resized, but as the design had to be that way, we needed to fix the
page.
So the point is surely, to look at each page and ask - what will my
user want to do with this page, and how best to present the material
to suit him? Sometimes fixed will be best, sometimes you will need
fluid.
Our default design is a fluid page that should work in 800x600; look
best in 1074x768, and expand gracefully in higher resolutions. Those
benighted souls using 640x480 can still use the pages with images
turned off, and as they are probably on 2400bps modems as well, they
would appreciate the bandwidth saving. ;)
Maty Matyszak
Biscuit Software Services Ltd.
-------- new post - same topic --------
From: Veronica Yuill
Subject: Fixed width
> Setting my browser to about 880x1000 is
> my preferred way of browsing, btw.
- Mo Douglas, LED 2205
Exactly! Every time this old chestnut of screen sizes comes up, many
contributors seem to assume that everyone runs their browser
full-screen. They don't; one of the advantages of large high-res
screens is that you can have several windows visible at once and
click between them. Plus remember that even if someone is running
their browser full-screen they may well have a sidebar open (showing
e.g. history, bookmarks, mail ...).
A fluid design (with if necessary some fixed elements) will work
properly in this situation. And if I find line lengths too long
(unlikely since I only have a a 17" monitor) I pop open the sidebar
or resize my browser window to something comfortable for me :-)
My 2 centimes
Veronica Yuill
Archetype IT
-------- new post - same topic --------
From: Brad Waller
Subject: Fixed width
This thread is like Deja Vu. I know if you search the archives you
will see this discussed at least one if not many times, and I know I
have made this same post before.
The issue is not what size monitor you or anyone else has. The
issue is what size the browser window is that your visitors are
using. Just because you have data that shows you have lots of
people with big monitors does not mean that they have their windows
maxed out to the size of the monitor. For example, on my desktop
machines with 1200+ pixel monitors, my browser windows are usually
less than 900 pixels wide.
Now that we have the issue of monitor size out of the way, let's
talk about fixed vs. fluid. There may be sites where fluid works,
but there are many more where you want to control the look of your
site. You don't have your email window set to the full width of
your screen now do you? Why not? Because it will be unreadable.
Same goes for your site. You can't let text go too wide or the site
becomes unreadable. Unless you have a perfect setup, superwide
windows can also mess up layouts, navigation, alignment and more.
The only way to control the look is to have a fixed size. Center
the content and it will still look OK. Make fluid site on your huge
monitor and it will look cramped on a small window. Make one that
looks good in a 700 or 800 pixel wide window and imagine how bad it
will look on someone else's 1800 pixel wide screen. If you don't
believe me, go to an Apple store and check out your stuff on their
30 inch Cinema Display monitor!
Brad Waller
Manage and Sell your own site advertising
waller, adjungle.com
-------- new post - same topic --------
From: Derek Andrews
Subject: Fixed width
I have always thought it would be a good idea for CSS layout to
allow for min and max attributes for widths of columns etc. This
would allow one perhaps to set a semi-fluid center column that was
always wide enough to accept any graphics you put in there, but with
an option for setting a maximum width for a block of text, maybe set
as a maximum number of characters to accommodate browser-side font
size settings. Does that make any sense?
Derek Andrews, woodturner
-------- new post - new topic --------
From: Michael Martinez
Subject: Google and paid links
> If paid links are hated so much, then why hasn't Google
> done something to take away their value? They took away
> the value for hidden text on a page and a number of other
> things that can be abused, so why not linking?
- Chris Nielsen, LED 2205
Where Google identifies paid links, they do take away their value.
The most well-publicized such penalty was for O'Reilly's paid links.
Google has not published a list of all the sites whose pages have
been deprived of their ability to confer PageRank and link anchor
text. But no one should doubt that they are taking action where
they feel reasonably confident that they have identified such links.
Buy and sell paid links at your own risk, but don't go around
arguing Google has done nothing just because you don't see the
effects of their campaign. They can't find them all, and I think
that is why they have been so publicly arrogant about the paid
links. But they HAVE found some and no one has any way of knowing
which links count and which links don't.
Michael Martinez
"Cuando Maria canta, canta para mí"
-------- new post - same topic --------
From: Dirk Johnson
Subject: Link Reciprocation [was: Conferences +]
In response to Bruce Clay's post [issue 2204], I appreciate that LED
readers now have an opportunity to see first-hand exactly what I
have been describing here for so many years.
That post fully illustrates what I am referring to when I say that
many (but certainly not all) of the most vocal of the SEO pundits
fail completely to understand reciprocal linking when it is done
properly and correctly. Even while they admit to not doing it. It is
astonishing.
Apparently, Bruce does not see how this plays out with our hundreds
of clients, nor does he see how it plays out with the thousands of
link partner sites that we link with. He simply seems to want to
characterize them all as "spammers". This is not only inaccurate,
but quite an affront toward thousands of legitimate business owners
who chose to ignore his advice.
Bruce also makes sweeping statements as to the effectiveness of
reciprocation on the search engines. Again, his lack of insight and
experience at reciprocation work is leading him to conclusions that
fail to hold any water whatsoever. The search results of our
clients, and the sites we link with, refute his assumptions, in
total. There is no other way to characterize it.
Certainly, Bruce Clay is entitled to his opinions, and those who
chose to follow his advice are welcome to do that. However,
reciprocal linking is a practice that pre-dates the search engines,
and it is entirely legitimate. There is no requirement to use a
"NOFOLLOW" tag on a legitimate directory link, and there never has
been one, since the inception of the World Wide Web.
As I have said before, and will say again, website owners and
managers, and working SEO specialists who are interested in facts
and not hyperbole, should take the time to review the actual search
results of commonly competitive search terms that reflect what a
typical small business owner encounters, and inspect the link
profiles that are attached to the top sites for those terms. When
that is done in-depth, I have no doubt that they will see what we
see here on a daily basis. The theories and posturing of the
anti-reciprocation pundits simply melt away.
Bruce Clay's post does reflect an attitude toward this practice that
pervades the top-levels of the SEO community. However, those
attitudes are at odds with actual search results. Nor is his
characterization of those who practice reciprocation responsibly as
"spammers" remotely accurate. Thousands of site owners realize the
discrepancies, and they simply choose to ignore these posturing
pundits. They continue to reciprocate, as they have done for years
and years. Why? Because it works well for their own sites. Should a
site owner stop doing what works, just because Bruce Clay and others
like him tell them it doesn't?
I am not cowed by charges of self-promotion. That's always thrown
out as a smoke screen. Responsible reciprocation is what we do for a
living. And I am quite willing to share our approach and tactics
with anyone. The top levels of the SEO world don't want to hear it,
but business owners do, based on the private replies that I get to
my posts here. LED Digest remains one of the few places where those
of us with actual and extensive practical experience at this work
can be heard in rational forum.
As I have said before, site owners and managers can take their
advice from individuals who do not do this work but who hold on to
some quite dramatic characterizations of it, or they can look to
those who actually do this work for advice on how to do it correctly
and rationally, if they determine that it is appropriate for their
sites to pursue reciprocation exchanges.
Best regards,
Dirk Johnson, Partner - Operations
DomainDrivers LLC
==== BILLBOARD ===================================
From: Cheryl Berry
Subject: Web Design Marketplace
RE: Martha Retallick
Dressing your Business for Success on the Internet
I phoned Martha [the other day] for information about Western Sky
Communications web design service. After only stating my name and
company - Cheryl Berry with bookkeepinghelp.com - I received the
immediate reply "I already have an accountant" and click... hang up.
I was flabbergasted at not receiving an opportunity to describe the
nature of my call. Minutes later I phoned again and left a detailed
voicemail message regarding my interest in Martha's services. Still
no reply. What's up with that?!
I think it's worth pointing out when you're in business, client /
prospect communication will always set precedence...
* UPDATE *
Quick follow up to my post ... and to be fair, I'd like to add:
Received a follow up phone call from Martha today and an email late
yesterday afternoon with apologies. Appears Western Sky
Communications Design & Consulting is on a "Do-Not-Call" list and
per Martha, I was a perceived telemarketer. It is beyond my depth
of comprehension why a business would publish a phone contact all
over a website and then place the number on a Do-Not-Call list but
hey, it's not my business!
For any LEDer who is interested, I am seeking a few (US or Canada
based only) web designers to add to our newly formed Marketplace - a
member only area for our customers to find useful resources. We
have worked with over 2,000 accounting and tax professionals (all
paying clients) and regularly get requests for referrals for web
design. I previously offered design service but due to the demands
of our core business, the directory, am no longer able to make this
available.
Placement in our Marketplace will be complimentary through December
for selected LEDers. Exceptional customer service a must! Please
contact me off-list to
This email address is being protected from spam bots, you need Javascript enabled to view it
for more
information.
Cheryl Berry
cheryl, bookkeepinghelp.com
-------- new post - new topic ---------
From: Dr. Mani Sivasubramanian
Subject: Wanted - LED'er for 'pro bono' Web Design
Hi all
Acting upon good advice, I have decided to give my CHD Awareness
website - http://www.CHDinfo.com - a face lift and make-over - by a
professional.
Yes, I could pay for it. The cost would however come out of funds
that might be more productively used for the beneficiaries of the
charity. So I thought of first asking if any LED'ers who are
professional web designers might consider taking up this project as
'pro bono' work (a.k.a. - FREE web design )
What's in it for you?
1. Contribution in kind to the work of the Foundation = good 'karma'
2. A mention on the home page about the 'donation' of your services
3. A permanent link back to your web design services page (quite
valuable)
Requirements:
1. You should be able to treat this as a regular priority project,
not one to be shelved or put on the 'only when I have the time'
back-burner. I do have a deadline for completion as second week of
August.
2. You should be able to comfortably fit it into your schedule -
please don't stress out or negatively impact your regular 'for
profit' work because of this project.
3. You should be a professional web designer, who has a portfolio of
work to show as demo. Many 'amateur' or 'beginner' web designers
have volunteered their services in the past. While I do appreciate
your generosity, the end result I've been advised to aim for has to
be top quality. So, please understand this requirement is strict.
When I got started working online, I have asked favors of many
people - and benefited from their generosity. However, for many
years now, I have paid my way through for my personal requirements -
and only ask for 'favors' and 'services' for my charity and
non-profit work, like this one. So please view this for what it is -
a request for a web designing professional who is able and willing
to take on the re-design of our Congenital Heart Defects website,
pro bono!
Interested? Please email me - info (at) ezinemarketingcenter.com
Thanks for your support.
All success
Dr. Mani
P.S. - The site is set for some big publicity in the near future,
thanks to some interesting developments (sorry, can't ruin the
surprise, but a few LED readers might know what's up!) :)
-------------------------------------------------------
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