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Shopping Cart Abandonment Print E-mail
Written by Kevin Condon
January 31, 2006

For all those of us frustrated at trying to get a benchmark for shopping cart abandonment, I recently found this excellent study (Feb. 2005) prepared by 2 Assistant Professors in Marketing - Shibo Li and Patrali Chatterjee from Rutgers. This is an extensive research study that at last gives me some real %s based on factual studies;  I am not going to try to summarize it - but here are two summary findings:

Most firms are able to convert only 2-3% of online traffic to paying traffic. The most successful convert only 8%!  If you read all the web coaches you would think differently!

I have followed the findings meticulously - in particular establishing actual levels of abandonment for our own cart.  Since implementing, I am getting close to 7%.  One of the conclusions related to shipping and in particular offering incentives such as "Buy any 2 Products and Get Shipping For Free".  It really seems to work.

And best of all - this report is free - at least for the moment. Whether its meant to be on the web or not, I'm not sure but its worth downloading this PDF.

The link is very long but here is the Google search term:

Shopping Cart Abandonment at Retail Websites - A Multi-Stage Model of Online Shopping Behavior. Shibo Li and Patrali Chatterjee. 1. February 16, 2005 ...

I hope it is useful for everyone

Kevin Condon
jazzles.com

<Moderator Comment>

Here's a link directly to the research piece: Shopping Cart Abandonment at Retail Websites. The paper is in PDF format.

-Adam



Written by Nick Usborne
February 1, 2006

I was interested to read Kevin Condon's post about shopping cart abandonment. This has always been a big problem for online retailers. It is particularly irksome for those studying the site metrics... and seeing so many people leaving the site at "the last moment". One thing you can do is add elements to your shopping cart pages that continually reassure the purchaser. If you have joined BBBOnline, this is the place to show their logo. HackerSafe logos and the like also help. I have also seen some companies add short and relevant testimonials to these pages with some success.

Of course, the best thing you can do to increase shopping cart conversions is to keep the process as short as possible. Don't ask for information unless you absolutely need it for the purpose of completing the transaction. If you want to collect additional personal information, ask for it AFTER the sale has been completed.

For those prospects you do lose, you may want to consider a shopping cart recovery email program. That is to say, you collect their email address at the very beginning of the process, and then email those people who don't complete the process. There may be some ethical questions to think about here, but the process can be very successful. We tested the email recovery approach recently and achieved a 263% increase in the recovery of abandoned carts.
 
Best wishes,

Nick Usborne
marketingexperiments.com



Written by Tom Aman
February 1, 2006

"One of the conclusions related to shipping and in particular offering incentives such as 'Buy any 2 Products and Get Shipping For Free'." - Kevin Condon

I have run into a number of sites where shipping is extra but the actual shipping cost is not stated on the site and can only be determined by starting into the checkout process. I suspect that one of the reasons people abandon carts is because the only way they can get the total cost of what they might order is by actually proceeding to the initial checkout phase. If the total, including shipping, etc., is more than they are willing to pay, then they just abandon the cart at that point.

On many sites it is impossible to determine a total cost without going at least that far in the shopping process. By having an offer such as "Buy any 2 Products and Get Shipping For Free", the problem of knowing total cost without going to the checkout is solved so the shopper is more likely to actually complete the sale.

Tom Aman
Aman Software



Written by Mark Roberts
February 2, 2006

Some observations here. Before you can accurately accumulate any metrics about shopping cart abandonment, you should probably be gathering information as to the reason for the abandonment to make sure you are comparing apples to apples. Why do people abandon shopping carts?

I have certainly contributed to be abandoned shopping cart inventory myself. The main reason? Poorly designed systems. I have been to many sites where it is almost impossible to determine how much something cost. Why people cannot just list a product and the price next to it is beyond my reasoning. I usually make the assumption that if they don't list the price, it must be so incredibably expensive that they are afraid to show it. I will usually have to go to the very last checkout step just to determine the price of their product. If it is more that what I wanted to pay for it, I bail out.

Another reason for abandoning, is shipping cost. Several times I have to go through the entire checkout process just to determine the shipping cost of an item. Sometimes I feel the shipping is just way out of line and have to bail out.
Sometimes, making the checkout as short as possible just means that I can abandon it quicker.

IMHO, the best way to increase conversions is to provide all the information up front so that by the time the user gets to the checkout, the decisions to buy or not to buy have already been made. Obviously, this might dramatically increase your "conversion rate" without really increasing your sales. That might be another thread altogether.

Mark Roberts
Roberts Computing Systems



Written by Kevin Condon
February 2, 2006

"For those prospects you do lose, you may want to consider a shopping cart recovery email program..." - Nick Usborne

I reviewed the Marketing Experiments Report mentioned by Nick Usborne relating to using email to recover cart abandonment - it is very impressive containing even the email scripts recommended to use. So thanks Nick - appreciated - what makes LED all worthwhile.

Best
Kevin Condon



Written by Beth Earle
February 2, 2006

I admit I haven't followed this thread very carefully because my company doesn't really focus on shopping charts, but ... are there any comparisons between brick-and-mortar abandonment and Internet abandonment?

There are a number of times that I walk out of a store without buying anything, even after having picked up (and then putting back down) an item that I had intended to purchase. I was just wondering if a comparison would provide a different perspective on this issue for e-tailers or if the brick-and-mortar experience might provide any insight into what happens online.

Yours in all that is good and LED'ly,

Beth Earle
pilotfishseo.com



Written by Nancy Cardinali
February 2, 2006

I'd like to add my 2 cents.

When I shop, I like to know what the price is BEFORE I go through the shopping cart nightmare. You would be surprised the number of times I simply wanted to know the price and had to plow through the cart process to get it! Also, have some way of letting the customer know the approximate shipping costs.

That would make my day!

Nancy Cardinali



Written by David Spahr
February 3, 2006

"I suspect that one of the reasons people abandon carts is because the only way they can get the total cost of what they might order is by actually proceeding to the initial checkout phase." - Tom Aman

I think Tom is absolutely correct on this one. As an online shopper I did exactly what he is saying just yesterday. I dropped the item when I saw the shipping cost. The cost was not shown with the item and it was pretty high. I think the shopping cart drop rate would change quite dramatically if the shipping cost was shown with the item. That might also mean fewer people click on your cart but better conversion.

In many cases, I believe the shipping price is intentionally not shown by sites intending to sandbag you at the final sale with a somewhat inflated shipping and "handling" charge. You see this on quite a few sites. I recently bought an item offered by multiple sites by price shopping the shipping cost. There was close to a $10 difference in some site's costs. You really have to watch out about your shipping charges on eBay too with different seller's "checkout" services. I got tagged there recently. In an auction you cannot back out (not easily anyway, without risking your good feedback rating).

Some folks may need to come to the reality that they need to rethink their shipping processes and pricing. If shipping is a significant part of your profit profile you may be signing your own death warrant. If you sell the same item as other sites and your shipping is higher, many people will figure this out. Most people not only will not buy, but will resent it highly and never return.

David Spahr
stereoviews.info



Written by John Barendrecht
February 3, 2006

"Most firms are able to convert only 2-3% of online traffic to paying traffic." - Kevin Condon

This does not imply that 97 -- 98% abandon carts, only that 97% of visitors don’t buy products for one reason or another. I wonder what the conversion rate for visitors to a mall is, if you excluded the food court. In a brick and mortar mall, it is easy not to count staff, or security personnel, etc. but online it is not as easy to determine bots or a 7 year old with no credit card from a person with intent and ability to buy.

Beth Ann makes a good point about brick and mortar cart abandonment. A couple of days ago, I went to Wal-Mart. To get a hair cut, you must walk at the rear of the tills and there were at least 25 carts filled to the brim with abandoned items. Clerks were adding items as I was trying to maneuver around the carts. Cleanliness and tidiness are not Wal-Mart’s strong point but that’s another thread or is that like page layout on the web?

Like Mark Roberts, I usually abandon carts because of a lack of pricing on the site. You must add the items to a cart to determine the price. On our site, we clearly mark all items and have a link to shipping costs on the bottom of every sale page. As we ship to 75+ countries, putting shipping costs on the page would not be practical. Even with the shipping cost link, we get at least 1 inquiry per day about shipping costs.

Rather than spamming visitors for abandoning the cart, we should be trying to prevent cart abandonment.

Best regards,

John Barendrecht
Centralhome.com Company Inc.



Written by Robert Bass
February 6, 2006

"When I shop, I like to know what the price is BEFORE I go through the shopping cart nightmare." - Nancy Cardinali

That would be feasible on sites where the purchaser buys one or two items for delivery in the USA, but I can tell you it is not feasible on sites whose average purchase is 15 or more items and shipment is often to foreign countries.

In the business I am in, both myself and my competitors routinely take orders for many different items, the shipping cost is calculated on weight, destination, and product value.  At least 25% of my sales are out of the country, although the weight stays the same the insurance and freight vary widely depending upon final destination.

And how do we know the destination until the checkout page is reached? We don't, and only at that time can our system calculate postage etc.

Robert Bass, Webmaster
jewelex.com



Written by Don Baker
February 6, 2006

Here's another new, research-based white paper discussing retail-site conversions, called "Merchant Conversion Secrets," from MarketLive. It's pretty detailed for a free report, with a number of charts and some good real-life examples. They ask for the usual contact info before directing you to the download page.

Don Baker
NSI Partners



Written by Nick Usborne
February 6, 2006

"IMHO, the best way to increase conversions is to provide all the information up front so that by the time the user gets to the checkout, the decisions to buy or not to buy have already been made." - Mark Roberts

I think Mark is right. Certainly, one of the principal reasons for shopping cart abandonment is the surprise you get when faced with the total cost - purchase price, plus taxes where applicable, plus handling fees, plus shipping costs. This why "free shipping" is such a powerful incentive. It removes the "bad surprise" element form the shopping cart, and also makes people feel they are getting a good deal.

From Amazon.com downwards, many online retailers now offer free shipping if you reach a certain purchase price threshold. One thing to remember, if you do offer free shipping on purchases over $35, for example, TELL people early on. I was at one store recently and the first I knew about the free shipping offer was when I saw the zero shipping cost within the cart itself. That's a wasted opportunity.

Beyond that, out test data continues to show that you will always increase shopping cart conversion by reducing the length of the process. Minimize the number of pages involved. Minimize the number of questions you ask. Minimize the amount of information you ask for. A shorter process will always help.

Best wishes,

Nick Usborne
marketingexperiments.com



Written by Vicki Lambert
February 9, 2006

I also agree that trying to get the shipping costs is one of the reasons I will abandon a cart.  But there are other reasons as well.  The biggest one is the hassle factor that I encounter when trying to check out.

I do 95% of all my shopping online.  The only thing I don't buy online is make-up, groceries (I use to) and gas for my car. And if a site makes it too much work to check out, then I am gone.  I don't shop at Wal-Mart (among other reasons) for the same thing.  I don't like to spend my time shopping just to spend more time waiting to check out.

Just the other day, I went to a new site to get something and by the time I had to set up an account, think up three different user IDs because someone already had that one, answer the questions, give opinions,  I said the heck with this.  The sites that have me coming back time and time again are the ones that make check out simple. No user ids, no passwords, nothing.  Just go to the shopping cart, put in my card and identifying info and I am done.

I understand that it is important to gather info from the site as to who is buying, but if I had to do that just to enter a brick and mortar store, I wouldn't waste my time so why should I do it on line?

Vicki Lambert



Written by Rick Gortatowsky
February 9, 2006

"... are there any comparisons between brick-and-mortar abandonment and Internet abandonment?" - Beth Ann Earle

I've kept rather silent during all this. Do people abandon shopping carts in retail? Most certainly. At the rate of the Internet? Not even close. No statistics are needed to figure this one out, your local Walmarts would be swimming with carts (vs returns! :) LOL).

Reality here is people on the web abandon shopping carts because they can without anyone taking any notice. Now some eGuru's can tout all the statistics they please. Reality again is in a high traffic consumer based economy, nation does not matter... People LOVE to shop! Shop! Shop! Shop! Does not mean they can afford to actually
purchase.

Whomever did these statistics it's all curious yes, but surprising? Not at all. See... Marketing and sales economics 101 in college states if you do not capture the sale at the point the consumer is shopping odds are you simply will not capture that sale. It's no different than someone going into brick and morter and browsing. The difference on the net is they can put things in a shopping basket so they do. When they store that shopping basket they are storing it because A. They dont have the money right now or B. They are going to look elsewhere before consumating the formal purchase.

Again, "Sales 101" if you do not capture the sale as the consumer is shopping odds are you never will.

Sites should get smart. When the customer goes to store their shopping basket there are numerous options / actions that can be taken. We can call it "Layaway" just like retail. The customer need have the credit card entered in order to do this. With that time payments can be made or if payment is not forthcoming a penalty paid just like the retail. Or, we can attempt to charge a storage fee for the cart, "A $5 charge (whatever) will be applied to hold this cart, the $5 upon completion of your order will be applied to the purchase price... blah blah terms blah terms blah duration days... blah blah".

Sites can be promotional... If a cart has $400 of stuff in it, perhaps a email of "Complete this and it ships free" or "10% off if you act within 24 hours".

The keywords thus are to cherish the consumer who really is serious... "I will pay on Friday" and get those who wont even spend $5 or work a layaway deal to not store carts.

Still... odds are if the consumer leaves the site after initial shop & drop they wont be paying for that stored cart. What does retail do? They run sales, they say in flyers "Limited Availability" (even when those limts are sizeable), a favorite, "Only a few left!"... Capturing sales can result from percieved pressure, "If I dont get it now then this place might not have it tomorrow".

If consumers could walk into any brick and morter retailer fill up shopping carts and then walk out the door as "store policy" know what? Be no room in the store for the rest of us to get in and shop! This aspect of the Internet is no different than all internet communication. Since it is disconnected, not face to face often people do things they would never do when people are around their person.

If sites partition the serious buyer from the buyer who is not by a small fee, lay-away... Get that card on file in other words then the serious go, "Ok... no problem". Those just having a shopping attack never really intending or affording consumating the sale will not store the carts.

Sincerely,

Rick Gortatowsky



Written by Valerie Beeby
February 10, 2006

I'm a pretty seasoned online shopper by now, but I well remember my fears when I first started out. I'm sure there are many shoppers still at that early stage. If I couldn't find the price of an article I was interested in, I was scared to press the 'Buy Now' button in order to find out. Irrational maybe, but I was afraid I might be let in for actually making the purchase.

Result: the store owner probably didn't even know I was interested in their goods (unless they gauged how long I spent on the site, and logged my clicks as I desperately hunted for any clue of a price.) If I had to enter my credit card number at the start, let alone be threatened with a penalty if I didn't buy, you wouldn't see me for dust even now!

Surely a basic price can always be given, with a note that shipping costs (specified) and taxes (specified, if necessary on a separate page) may be added?

Valerie Beeby
purple-owl.com



Written by Jay C. Everson
February 13, 2006

Wow, I just checked and discovered that I subscribed on Feb. 8 1998 and this is my first attempt at posting. I, all of a sudden, feel very selfish and would like to thank everyone who actively participates in the discussions...

Anyway, I shop almost exclusively online. There are a number of reasons I abandon shopping carts, most of them I have seen mentioned already. However, the number one reason I abandon shopping carts is not one that can be fixed by any strategy that I can think of. In reality, 90% of the time it's because I've added numerous items (sometimes in an attempt to get free shipping) and discovered that what they add up to is far more than I'm willing to pay at the time. It has nothing to do with hidden charges; it's the unexpected sum at the end.

You could argue that displaying the cart total every time something is added will prevent that, but honestly it doesn't. Once confronted with the astonishing final amount, I find it too difficult to choose what to remove so I move on, figuring to comeback on another day when I'm in a different mood.

I'm not sure how common or uncommon that is. In fact I'm not even sure it helps anyone. But, "it is what it is"

Jay C. Everson
all-offroad.com



Written by Rick Gortatowsky
February 14, 2006

"However, the number one reason I abandon shopping carts is not one that can be fixed by any strategy that I can think of... 90% of the time it's because I've added numerous items and discovered that what they add up to is far more than I'm willing to pay at the time." - Jay Everson

This is I believe one of the aspects I covered in this thread. People shopping and either not having the money to actually buy or when they see the total they go, "Well forget this".

Many people do this, I have done this. But stored shopping carts are a different matter. These should be treated as a layaway type deal. In order for the cart to be stored a credit card need be entered. This will eliminate most of the buyers who are really not serious. The goods in the cart should be "reserved", taken off active inventory. If the customer does not come back within whatever the terms are, 10 working days perhaps then a penalty is assessed just like real layaway.

One can argue that, well whats to stop people w/ a maxed out card or invalid card from still storing carts? Big difference. Once they actually enter that card data the equation changes. They then have entered into a terms of service (layaway) contract and submitted actual payment data. The vendor has reserved goods.

At this point there are several options. Formal complaint to the card franchise, drawing bank, even the cops of say card data is bogus or a long expired card etc, emailing the ISP and letting them know that their service is being used as a venue for the parties activities. What good does that do? ISP's have terms of services too and most are quite serious and good about following up. They generally warn the party.

There are people who browse shop and never really intend on making the purchase. Thats ok. They are not storing the shopping cart. If someone is going to store a shopping cart then the site need attempt to only allow those who are serious buyers to store them.

Rick Gortatowsky



Written by Tom Aman
February 17, 2006

Just a couple of quick comments since most of the main reasons for abandonment have already been mentioned.

1. Sometimes, having filled a cart with various items, then deciding not to proceed with the purchase, the only way to empty the cart is to manually zero out the quantity for each item.  Easier to just abandon it.  Some sites have a button to "Empty Cart".  Giving users such a button may not increase the number of completed sales but it does let the user easily empty the cart before leaving, thereby reducing the number of abandon carts.

2. Many carts have a timeout associated with them so that the cart is assumed to be effectively abandoned if the cart appears inactive for too long a time.  This is totally reasonable when cart contents are associated with the site inventory and items are removed from the inventory total as they are added to the cart.  This is good because, if the desired quantity is successfully added to the cart, the buyer knows the item is in stock and available.  The timeout is needed because, if the sale is not completed within some reasonable time frame, the items should go back into the inventory, hence the apparently abandon cart is automatically emptied.  If there appear to be a lot of abandon carts with this kind of system, maybe the time limit period needs to be reconsidered - adding a 1/2 hour or hour to it may reduce the number of apparent abandon carts.

Tom Aman
Aman Software



Written by Sarah Hayes
February 20, 2006

I design websites and I also own a couple of shopping websites myself. I have spent hours watching customers progress through the sites using customer support software such as phpLive. By doing this I have been able to pin point areas in the sign up and checkout process that maybe causing a problem and then redesigning those areas to make it easier for the customer.

Although I agree that the shopping and checkout process needs to be as straight forward as possible and the shipping costs should be openly displayed I think the simple reason for the high level of abandoned carts is that people are simply window shopping.

When we go to the shops we don’t buy in every shop we enter. Sometimes we don’t even have any money to spend, but we like to look. Online shops are no different except we can easily track exactly how many people are coming through our doors and in the case of PPC how much it’s costing per person.

I’m planning to buy a new laptop in the next month or so and for the last few weeks I have been browsing various online computer shops. I have been adding laptops to my basket so I don’t forget what I was interested in. A week or so later I go back, look to see if there is anything new and compare the laptop(s) I previously added to the shopping cart. I’m using the shopping cart as favourites list with little intention of buying online. I will probably go to a real shop where I can actually see the laptop and ask a real person questions.

We can and should try to simplify and streamline the checkout process and be upfront with shipping charges, but IMO the bottom line is that a lot of people are simply window shopping and have little intention of buying. Whatever you do they won’t buy until they are ready but you need to make sure that when they are ready to buy it’s your website they go back to.

Like offline businesses, successful online shops work every customer they have. Many successful online shops do not make a profit on their customers first or even second order. Their view is long term; they value each customer and nurture long-term relationships.

Be upfront with all information not just prices and shipping charges. Clearly show your telephone number on at least the home page and preferably all pages of your website and encourage customers to call if they have any question. Encourage your customers to sign up for your newsletter and special offers. Send regular newsletters; add new products and special offers to your website regularly so there is always something new for them to look at. Make it worth their while to come back, they’ve seen your site once, if there’s nothing new the next time they visit why should they come back again? Email customers who have abandoned their carts (assuming they have subscribed to your newsletter) with either a special offer for one of the products that was in their cart or a discount voucher off their next order (you’ll be surprised at the results). When you do get an order make sure you keep the customer up to date with the order status and dispatch and include a small free gift with each order. Try it, it works!

Yes it means that you’ve got to do a bit more work than submit to Google or top up your PPC account and sit back, but how many offline businesses are successful without hard work? If more online business used offline business principles and good customer relations they would be far more successful.

Sarah Hayes
bromleynet.co.uk



Written by John Brumage
February 21, 2006

I would NEVER throw away a customer's cart, but return the items to stock after a reasonable time. If the item is still in stock or available at that price, the order is easily reconstructed.

John Brumage, Artist and teacher



Written by Kimberly Morgan
February 22, 2006

David Yancey and I have been closely monitoring the thread on shopping cart abandonment, and want to thank all who have posted so far; it is a very difficult problem so all the input we can share is very helpful.

For our new consumer-focused site, we are first focusing on shortening the “navigation path” between landing page and the point where the shopper decides to place an item in the cart. We decided this was our most important first step, because we’re concerned as much with “site abandonment” by these new visitors as with the more narrowly defined cases where the shopper gives up after having put at least one choice in the cart. We have studied our logs in detail to learn the proportion of “tire kickers” to those who make at least one choice. We think Job One is to try and move many more of the browsing folks into the “made at least one choice” column. Then we’d have a larger base for conversion, so even if we are slow to solve the actual cart abandonment problems, we at least have a chance for more sales.

In the upcoming “Version 2” of the site, we’ll have the ability to create precision-targeted landing pages that encourage the new visitor to make at least one selection right away, with zero navigation through the rest of the site. The challenge is to make a landing page that first, engages the visitor with information that follows through on the targeted ad or link that brought her to us. But then, our goal is to (we hope!) resolve the important buyer’s concerns mentioned in previous posts right up front, including shipping costs, returns policies, quality worries, store contact and customer service reassurance, as well as clearly show our “buy 2, get one free” offer, and how our unique “smile guarantee” works.

Jay Everson makes a good point about the total cost being a shock when the shopper actually sees the cart. We’re looking into having a feature to show a running total on every page, provided the shopper is “logged in” to the site. But this doesn’t help with first-time visitors of course.

One idea that I discovered while researching our design plan may be of interest to other shop operators. At roxio.com, I was messing around with the process, trying several things. I work on many pages and apps at once, like most people online do, so after a minute or two I got involved in some other task. After about five minutes, the Roxio cart page flashed a pop-up with the following message:

"Get an instant 10% off on your order if you buy now! [Order Now]"

I clicked on it and the discount was automatically added to my shopping cart and the total was recalculated. Wow! Here was a way to get my attention again, and encourage me to go complete the process. I think if this was a feature of carts, it might be a useful partial answer to abandonment, at least for those shops that can afford this extra discount.

Kimberly Morgan
tootoographic.com



Written by Nancy Cardinali
February 23, 2006

I just purchased 14 clothing items from an online only store.

I first visited due to a snail mail catalogue. I added to my shopping cart, then had to leave. (It's that silly 'work' thing!) When I returned to the site, everything was still in my basket! And I had not 'logged on' or registered in any way. I was impressed and continued to shop.

This site really has some problems (roamans.com) -- the pages take waaaay too long to load and when you use the 'put your catalogue number here' box, it makes you add the catalogue issue number as well - EVERY time you put in an item number! Big bummer. Again, I liked what they had, so I trudged on.

I went in and out of this site for several weeks due to my time constraints and the slow speed of their site.  FINALLY I was ready to buy. When I viewed the shopping cart to see my total, I had an error message which was greek to me, and I design web sites. Soooo, I called their web site help number and was told there was something in my cart that was no longer available or had some other problem. I had to go through every item - that would be 14 items -  (taking several steps and dealing with the slow site), to find out the LAST item was no longer in stock.

Now, all that is just plain wrong!  ... anyway....

Once the offending items was removed, all went smoothly. I got an offer for x% off on items similar to those in my basket, and the '25% off one item' was automatically deducted from the highest priced item, when the coupon code was inserted.

Will I shop with them again? Probably. But the bottom line will be the quality of the clothes. I can always call to order.

Nancy Cardinali
haroldrmiller.com



Written by Vicki Lambert
February 24, 2006

"I just purchased 14 clothing items from an online only store... This site really has some problems..." - Nancy Cardinali

I can surely relate to your experience.  I have been using that site since it first went up.  I always shop online but they are one of the few companies that I still use the catalog and phone.  I just cannot take their website. Unless I feel like playing solitaire while each page loads.  Lane Bryant (sister company) is the same way.  The website is just too much hassle, but the product is good so again, catalog and phone when I can.  But they do lose a lot of business from me for their websites when I am not in the mood to mark my catalog, call on the phone, etc.  IMO if web designers had to actually use their website as a customer, they would design it differently.

Vicki Lambert


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