| Designing with Fixed Font Sizes |
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 see also Does Good Usability Make Dull Sites? in the Usability category.Written by Tom Aman August 3, 2006
> Look at my text on my site. You could
> not do that without CSS.
- Mary Lee, Fixed Width vs Fluid Designs
Whether or not you do it with CSS is beside the point but one thing you do on your site is force me to read it using *your* choice of font size. While my browser lets me set the text size to my preference, your site takes that option away from me and makes me use your choice. That makes viewing your site a real problem for anyone who *needs* to see a larger font for comfortable reading.
While that is only one aspect of *control*, it is representative of the many problems that a fixed or over controlled design can cause for surfers.
Tom Aman
Aman Software
Written by Kerry Branham August 4, 2006
I'm not so sure I agree with Tom on this one. It's true that "forcing" a font size on site visitors takes away control from them, but other than very techy people, who really knows how to change font sizes on a site anyway? It would be an interesting study to see how many people are really affected by this aspect of
websites.
I know how to change font sizes in one keystroke, but I never use it. From my experience (in working with all sorts of comsumers of PC's, since I work for a computer shop), people who have trouble reading simply utilize a screen resolution that allows them to see everything larger on screen anyway. They also have the option of using large fonts with their screen resolution.
To me there are worse problems with design of sites other than what size the font is. Take, for instance, when someone decides to use a background image that is too pronounced to be able to make out the text over the background. To me that is more ignorant than forcing a visitor to view a site in a font size chosen by the designer.
I sincerely doubt that the majority of web visitors know you can change the size of fonts on a website.
Kerry Branham
K-S Marketing
Written by Richard Dudley
August 7, 2006 > From my experience... people who have trouble
> reading simply utilize a screen resolution that allows
> them to see everything larger on screen anyway.
I have the same experience in the corporate world. If people have vision problems, then they have as much trouble reading JD Edwards screens as they do a website or even the cards in solitaire. I'm not sure the font sizing buttons on the LED's site will be used that often. Therefore, I think it's more important to debate how much longer we're going to see lower monitor resolutions than user selectable font sizes.
Richard Dudley
rjdudley.com
Written by Ronni Rhodes August 7, 2006 Personally, I leave sites where the font size is "pre-determined" for me. Usually it's much too small, and my baby boomer eyes protest.:-)
I've noticed that more and more news sites are now giving the user the option to make the font size smaller or larger. I heartily approve of this practice and wish more designers would do this.
I agree that many users don't know how to use the "View" option to adjust font size. Giving the user the choice right on the page is thoughtful and useful.
Kind regards,
Ronni Rhodes
wbcimaging.comWritten by Mary Johnson August 7, 2006
It is often easy to fall into the trap that just because we don't do something one way that nobody does it. I often see postings by programmers who say that nobody ever prints web pages (which couldn't be farther from the truth) just because they don't. As a result, they don't bother to handle the cut off of text on the right margin when printed using default printer settings -- one of my personal pet peeves.
Let me give you a more personal example. I recently started designing my new websites to handle adjustable text using ems instead of fixed pixel sizes. I pride myself on my testing abilities and was pleased that it worked across all browsers. Several weeks later, someone reported experiencing extremely large (4") text. A few days later, another person reported extremely small (unreadable) text.
This got my attention, and I was able to recreate the problem and fix it. It was related to a simple menu option in IE that lets users change the font size. I personally did not use that setting myself, was not aware it existed, so did not test it. My CSS did require some special coding to accommodate this feature in IE.
To summarize:
1) For every one that does report problems, imagine the hundreds that don't! Failing to accommodate differences can result in lost website sales.
2) Deviating from "fixed" anything in web design increases the complexity and requires more skill and experience and time to test. But the benefits are worth it to the website visitor in making their experience more enjoyable.
Mary Johnson
Web Site Helper LLC
Written by Judith Baar August 7, 2006 > ... other than very techy people, who really knows
> how to change font sizes on a site anyway? It would
> be an interesting study to see how many people
> are really affected by this aspect of websites.
I don't know that I'm 'very techy" but I am affected by the text size so much that I don't visit sites that are too small and unscalable and thus unreadable. If it's something I really need to read I will copy the text (copy command or Ctrl-C) to Notepad for a readable version.
Some news sites used to be scalable and are not now, so if I see a headline of interest I note it and then go to a news site that has scalable text and look for the story there. There are even a couple of websites that for some reason make me a bit nauseous I have to strain so hard so I don't go to them anymore.
The fad seems to be lots of white space and teeny-tiny text.
The problem with adjusting the monitor and various font sizes is that often the web sites are not set up for that and I find overlapping text and text that runs off the screen. Even setting the font larger will give a message that some programs will not appear correctly.
I also note that web pages that are fine on Windows can be really scaled down on a Mac so testing is needed there too (if you have that option). I'm guilty of that on my web pages which are done under Windows. I hope to make time down the road to correct that. Any suggestions are welcome.
> I know how to change font sizes in one
> keystroke, but I never use it.
I can change it in a couple of keystrokes how do you do it in
one?
Thanks for listening to my opinion.
Judith Baar
JBsImages.us
P.S. This is my first post here, I hope I did it correctly.
Written by Kathy Wilson August 7, 2006
Who knows how to change font sizes? The boomers, who are now of an age where their eyesight presents a challenge for them, are quickly learning how to change font sizes in order to read the content of some websites. I, being one of them, recently had cause to do this when I went to a website whose font size appeared so small on my 800x600 monitor screen that the text looked like Greek. In the past I've even resorted to printing a web page in order to be able to read it.
Important note: if the text on a website is so small that it's difficult for me to read, I'll click away to another website where the designer cares more about ease of usability and less about having control over the size of the font. As a website owner and/or designer, how many people do you want to shoo away because they can't read your message? I can't understand why anyone would spend time and money to create a website and work to get it placed well on the search engines only to chase people away because they can't read the message on the webpages.
Yes, I agree, it would be an interesting study to see how many people find small text annoying and difficult to read. Here's my "yes" vote to being affected as a website visitor.
I also vote "yes" to being affected as a website designer and
owner.
Love,
Kathy Wilson
under-one-roof.net
Written by Kerry Branham August 8, 2006 It appears that my previous post on font sizing has sparked some discussion. That's great! That was my intention. Please understand that even though I may have written my post to spark a bit of controversy, I was not advocating that you should never be concerned with font size. If you have the time and the skills to give the viewer an easy to use option of font size, or make sure the fonts are scalable for all browsers, PC's, Mac's, etc., then I say, "Go for it!".
What I was getting at is that there are many people, who just may be your customers, that barely know how to access the web and browse. Heck, we may need to look at changing the way we do websites altogether as the Internet evolves, and things become more interactive. When Internet II comes available for the general public will we still have static websites as now?
Anyway, getting back to the purpose for my original post, I think we need to think more globally when developing sites rather than focusing so much attention on just one thing. And to answer Judith's question,
> I can change [font sizing] in a couple of
> keystrokes -- how do you do it in one?
If you hold down your <CTRL> key and scroll your mouse wheel
your fonts will grow larger or smaller if the site was developed using fonts that are resizable. Ok, so technically it's not exactly one keystroke, rather a keystroke and mouse function, but it's close.
Kerry Branham
K-S Marketing
Written by Tom Aman August 8, 2006 My original comment was: > While my browser lets me set the text size to my preference, your > site takes that option away from me and makes me use your choice. - Tom Aman > I'm not so sure I agree with Tom on this one. It's true that > "forcing" a font size on site visitors takes away control from them, > but other than very techy people, who really knows how to change > font sizes on a site anyway? It would be an interesting study to > see how many people are really affected by this aspect of websites. - Kerry Branham While a lot of people may not know how to change the font size easily, most will have their browser/resolution set to give them convenient sizing for reading for them. If they had a very real need for larger text, they may well have had a more knowledgeable person set their browser for them. When a Web page freezes the font size, there is always the chance that it will be at a size that is not convenient for the surfer to read in spite of their resolution settings. A better choice for font sizing is to make it relative (fluid). Tom Aman Written by Mary Lee August 11, 2006
> ... one thing you do on your site is force me to read it using
> *your* choice of font size. While my browser lets me set the
> text size to my preference, your site takes that option away...
I have actually viewed my site on several computers -- 3 macs and 2 PCs -- and am able to re-size the font as desired. My hubby blows text up so big it is in your face, and my site text blows up just fine. If you had looked at my site you would know that CSS is not taking that away. In fact if you do not resize my font is wider spaced and a little larger for easier reading, but that does not mean you cannot re-size it.
Mary Lee
Dinner And A Murder.com
Written by Steven Birk August 14, 2006
Mary Lee,
I don't think it's a matter of what type of computer you use to view your site, but what browser you are using. I viewed your site on a PC using IE 6.0 and could NOT re-size your fonts. I viewed your site using Firefox 1.5.0.6 and was able to re-size your fonts. Looks like if you have CSS controlling your font size, IE will NOT override this but Firefox will. Don't know about any of the other browser that may be out there.
> If you had looked at my site you would know
> that CSS is not taking that away.
I don't know how you would know if Tom looked at your site or not, but if he said he cannot re-size your font then maybe he is using a browser that will not over-ride the font size. If you are using the IE browser and you are able to resize your fonts on your site as stated, then maybe there is a setting that can be changed to allow this in IE (I cannot find one)...
Regards,
Steven Birk, FF/EMT
publicsafetyhub.com
Written by Michael Martinez August 14, 2006
Re: Mary Lee and Font Sizing
Using Internet Explorer, I can go to the site in your signature and reset my font size. Nothing happens. LARGEST, SMALLEST both look the same.
I had complained to SEOMoz about some of their action links not working for me. Matt, the tech guy, was unable to reproduce the problem, but when I described it in a comment to one of their posts, someone else suggested a missing piece of CSS code that, when Matt put the code in place, enabled me to click on the links.
I suspect your CSS is incomplete. This probably reflects a deficiency in Internet Explorer, which is a pretty old piece of software. Microsoft is due to release a new version soon. I don't know enough about CSS to suggest what you can do on your site to help the older browsers adjust their font sizes.
Michael Martinez
Written by Jim Sullivan August 14, 2006 Mary, on my XP box with IE 6 I cannot re-size fonts. In Firefox 1.5 and Opera 9 on XP and in OS X with Safari I can re-size them.
A new question: Can we code to force an initial font size that would then be re-sizable by the user? I work with a shop that installs and upgrades to XP (with IE 6, of course) daily. Upgrades from Windows 98 result in a carryover of the default font size in IE 6 set to Medium. Most (but not all) of the new installations of XP give a default font size in IE of Smaller. Let's hope Microsoft fixes that in IE 7.
I agree that most users open a browser and take what they get. I'm sure there are a lot of folks wondering why the font is so small.
Jim Sullivan
Written by Will Bontrager August 15, 2006 > The new LED site has [auto font sizing], too.
> Check it out in the upper right of the page
- Moderator Comment, Does Good Usability Make Dull Sites?
But, I had to scroll to the right to see it :) A 800x600 browser window
usually fits best with other tasks vying for my monitor real estate.
This has been an excellent thread.
I think more and more site owners are becoming sensitive to their older
users, as I've seen several text size adjustment opportunities at sites
I've visited recently. One even had the adjustment buttons floating
top-right, staying with the window as the page scrolled. But
led-digest.com is the first site, other than site design niche sites,
that I've seen the opportunity to resize the width of the page itself.
Good idea, that.
Commenting on the link visibility aspect of this subject, for
those who prefer not to follow recommended colors, the option of
changing link text colors or other aspects, like underlining or size,
might be provided to visitors. An article about a way to accomplish
this, written in response to feedback about links at one of our own
sites, is at http://willmaster.com/linkpref (redirect to long
URL). The page with the article implements the idea, see top right of
page.
> ... someone else suggested a missing piece of
> CSS code that... enabled me to click on the links.
- Michael Martinez
Michael, would you please share that code with us? I'm sure many would appreciate it.
Will Bontrager
Back in 1999, when I created my website, bindependent.com, I knew little about programming. But I
did know that my intended audience - those with disabilities and the
elderly - would benefit from larger text. So I increased the text
size from 12 to 14 points throughout. How? Not by changing the
default text (remember my state of programming ignorance), but by
manually overriding that default - paragraph by paragraph, page by
page.
Written by Sandra Linley August 17, 2006 Did I, although with the best of intentions, create a monster that wrests away control from visitors to B Independent? And, if so, am I compelled to undo the re-sizing in the same manner as I added it, paragraph by tedious paragraph? Or is this really a matter of little consequence - despite it, could B Independent implement an on-page text size adjustment option? And if so, could someone point me to a script that accomplishes this? Thanks for any guidance. Sandra Linley B Independent Written by Michael Martinez August 18, 2006 > Michael, would you please share that code > with us? I'm sure many would appreciate it. - Will Bontrager Will, you have no idea of how many old SEOMoz posts I had to sift through to find this. :) The following section of style sheet code from their site includes the missing line. Someone suggested to Matt (Oatmeal) that he add the "cursor: pointer" line. The problem I had reported was that I could not click on the "Add Comment" links in their blog with Internet Explorer. You had to exactly position the cursor over the right spot, and the cursor wasn't helping show where that spot was. Code: add_commentWhether sites that unintentionally freeze fonts have also omitted some CSS code is beyond me. I leave the style sheeting to my partner. Michael Martinez michael-martinez.blogspot.com Written by Tom Aman August 19, 2006 > Did I, although with the best of intentions, > create a monster that wrests away control > from visitors to B Independent? - Sandra Linley There does not seem to be any problem with resizing the text on your site. There has been some comment regarding text resizing that points out that, while *frozen* font sizes cannot be resized in IE, they can be resized in Netscape and Firefox (browsers that I believe use the same rendering engine). Obviously, the developers of these have realized the problems caused with fixed font sizes so have chosen to essentially ignore this and allow resizing of the text. Designers should think about that next time they want to freeze a font size. Tom Aman Aman Software Written by Maty Matyszak August 19, 2006 Re: Font Sizing It's quite probable that IE7 in vista is going to make this whole discussion a lot less relevant. I've been playing about with the beta and there is a very obvious (even your granny could find it) magnifying glass in the bottom right corner. It magnifies the page (pics and text) up to 400%. It seems as if it can also screw up your monitor's hinting, causing slight fuzziness or colour penumbras, but that's another issue. Maty Matyszak knowyourcat.info see also Does Good Usability Make Dull Sites? in the Usability category.Comments (2)
Krish
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| In one part of my website I have a wide range of audience so it makes sense to let them change the font. However in another section there is a very limited number of people (very controlled) and I need much stricter layout control. You should know your audience and tailor to their needs. |
Nicholas Maietta
said:
| I am so glad people are talking about this issue. It is great that we can change sizes of fonts on a website. This is why us programmers and website designers adhere to "standards". Since the introduction of Web 2.0, CSS styled websites managed to break away from standards by incorrectly setting up a method for changing font size for a specific website. This was soon seen as a "great idea". The reality is that it isn't. A user's PC is customized for the PC owner's needs. If fonts are too small across websites and applications alike, then it's time to make some changes to the type of display being used and it's resolutions settings. All operating systems have accessibility features for this reason. Forcing website developers and programmers to cater to specific handicaps is opening a can of worms and it isn't good for the standards set in place to ensure proper programmatic evolution. A printed newspaper doesn't to people with poor eye sight, neither most books. Why should the web be any different. Tools are made available so very few people are left out. Some people feel that they shouldn't have to use these tools and are somehow entitled for extra programming time and energy made tailor for their needs. The whole point of designing a website is to design it to look and feel a certain way. Allowing in text font changes outside the control of the webmaster breaks in most cases the layout, look and overall professional appearance of the website. I urge people to quit fussing around with ignoring the tools provided to those who need them. Trying to pin the designers of websites and programmers for software is not good for the promotion of new websites. Please take my advice as a veteran programmer and website developer. I know of all the web standards and I study them carefully. Web designers have enough challenges in designing a website and shouldn't be forced to have to take into consideration the reader's eye sight. That's a medical problem of the reader that can be addressed by a doctor. After all, labels and tv remotes don't change their font sizes to accommodate the user. The user should accommodate to be comfortable in the body they are given. |
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