| Have I Been Scammed? |
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Written by Bev Hanna
March 21, 2006
Yesterday, I was called by a company purporting to be representing a respectable internet marketer from whom I had recently purchased an e- book. They offered a one-on-one mentoring program, promising close monitoring with lots of help, assignments and
accountability. They had all my contact information from the site where I had purchased the e-book, so naturally, I assumed their claims were backed by the marketer in question, who is someone well-known and respected.
I went ahead and bought the mentoring package to the tune of $3,000.00, assuming that this was a legitimate upsell. It was a difficult decision to make, as my total income last year in my business as an artist was just over $5,000.00, but they said they could help me learn to make at least $4,000.00 per month.
When I opened my e-mail this morning, I received a message from the marketer from whom I had purchased originally, saying that this company has a terrible reputation and that on no account should anyone have anything to do with them. I have no idea how they got my information from this purchase, but they had everything
correct.
Does anyone know anything about Empire Marketing, Shanklin Group International or ESM (Educational Sales and Marketing)? Have I just done something remarkably stupid?
Bev Hanna, S.C.A.
bevhanna.com
Written by Phil Chave March 22, 2006
Hi Bev
I don't know all the rules about distance selling, but don't you have a certain amount of time to change your mind? In the UK I think it's around 14 days. Pressure sales over the phone are covered by these rules, I'm fairly sure.
The first course of action has got to be to get in touch with your credit card company, if this is how you paid. Trading standards may be able to help.
But do it Now.
Hopefully, somebody who knows the rules of law for sure will also write in.
Good luck.
Phil Chave
distanthealer.co.uk
Written by Doug Stewart March 22, 2006
I just Googled a couple of the names above and found this forum discussion thread: http://www.howtocorp.com/cgi-bin/webbbs_config.pl/noframes/read/12764. It looks like this company scammed several people for thousands of dollars each. So you aren't alone. One of the posts claim they got their money back. Good luck.
Doug Stewart
DSC Web Services, Inc.
Written by Michael Linehan March 22, 2006 Hi Bev,
Sorry. Yes. You got scammed. If you want to know how thoroughly and horribly, check:
http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/ripoff154688.htm
It's an MLM scam with many of the characteristics of a cult. Stay away from these people, or you stand to lose a lot more than
$3,000.
For anyone else at any time in the future, you can easily get information on the Web. My first search plus a minute or two looking through the first page provided these references. Of course, if there are no negative references, it doesn't mean everything is OK - we still need to use other information, intuition, comparison to other scams and analysis. But if a first search throws up a pile of negatives, something is seriously wrong. Check first.
Michael Linehan, Marketing Alchemy
Written by Donald Nelson March 23, 2006 Dear All,
Bev Hanna wrote about how she was scammed. If she paid by credit card then she should immediately start charge-back proceedings. It sounds like she will have a good chance of recovering the money.
Last year I took a chance at purchasing a bargain domain name for $5.95 from a fly-by-night company and ended up being charged for $600 with additional costs for "hosting" which I did not need and did not order. I was not able to contact the offending company but was able to recover the funds by starting a chargeback case against the vendor.
It took a few months to process but it was worth it. Inquire with your bank about how to go about it.
Sincerely,
Donald Nelson
a1-optimization.com
Written by Alex Hughart March 23, 2006
Bev,
I would like to take this opportunity to tell you - and for others to see how beautiful your art is. I
enjoyed immensely going through the site - I can't decide whether I like better visual art or little stories that accompany every picture. I hope you make far, far more than those bastards took from you.
Regards,
Alex Hughart
bonsavon.com
Written by Bev Hanna March 24, 2006 My thanks to the people who replied to my query regarding the situation with my credit card. In the final analysis, and on the advice of my lawyer who pointed out that it would probably cost more in legal fees than I'd ever get back since I live in Canada and cross-border litigation would be prohibitive, I decided to go ahead and work with the program I'd signed for.
Given that I'm not well-versed in e-commerce, even if I get only basic training I'll be further ahead than before, and if they do live up to their claims I should easily be able to make back what I paid out within the first year. As for further costs, since I no longer have a credit card, I will get what I can from the information provided and, when the time is right, make better-informed decisions. Once burned, twice shy, right?
Bev Hanna, S.C.A.
bevhanna.com
Written by Michael Linehan March 27, 2006 "... I decided to go ahead and work with the program I'd signed for. Given that I'm not well-versed in e-commerce, even if I get only basic training I'll be further ahead than before..." - Bev Hanna
Bev, I sincerely think you can get much better training for free. There's a lot of good information around. Accounts I have read would seem to indicate they have nothing of value to offer you.
"... and if they do live up to their claims I should easily be able to make back what I paid out within the first year."
Nothing I read in researching them indicates that there is any chance at all of making that money back.
"... I will get what I can from the information provided and, when the time is right, make better-informed decisions. Once burned, twice shy, right?"
You have much more to lose than mere money. From what people have reported (see references I sent before and many more similar), there is a considerable danger of losing a huge amount of time and your emotional well-being.
You have been scammed. I think engaging further with the scammers would be unwise in the extreme.
Michael Linehan
marketing-alchemy.com
Comments (29)
Nic Hickley
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| Thank you all! I was about to invest £4000, but decided to make furter inquiries, I looked at your comments and have saved myself from getting scammed.. I would add that the original link came fom a certain Mike G who is supposed to be the business Guru! my comment is watch out! |
kimani
said:
| I was about to pay the company by the name shaklin group international for couching, amount nearly $6000 but thanks be to you guys, now I know better. |
John
said:
| Bev, can you say how you have found it, if you have decided to stay? I am in the same situation as you and am wondering if to use the get out clause they gave me on the phone. John |
tammy
said:
| thank you so much- i almost paid 5000 and my bank googled shanklin group international-got that letter from bev and thats all i needed to know they saved me $ i didnt have to throw away-so thanks to all out there who coment to public about scammers!!!!! |
Sue
said:
| I have been financially ruined for the last few months since losing my job and the call i got from america (im in Australia) sounded like a saviour. I was dissapointed in the site that i first joined because it all involved more money to make it work properly. I did do the stupid thing and gave my card details for over $5000 aus dollars and now i cant get in touch with anyone to help me. my bank has told me it is a scam. How do i get my money back. I will lose my house if i cant!!!!! |
Michael Cade
said:
| I was nearly scammed by the shanklin group, my crdidt card company put a hold on the $4,395 charge and when I called they first said they cleared it and then the Shanklin Rep called me back to say it was still blocked. I told him I was not going through with the deal and and googled the Sahnklin Group and found you. Thnak you, I need to make money not waste $4,000 more. Thanks again!!!!! |
Miah
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| Just wanted to say THANK YOU GUYS for helping me out. I was called today about investing $6000 and promised a return on my investment with in 3 months but the guy that called me said his name was Mathew O'leary and he said he was affiliated with Mike G and sounded professional the way he presented himself over the phone. I told him I only had $4000 on me then he said that's ok they'll offer me a discount that's when I clicked WHAT COMPANY WOULD OFFER A 2 THOUSAND DOLLAR DISCOUNT STRAIGHT AWAY then he might as well have told me right then and there it's a scam when he asked for my credit card details over the phone. And he's gonna call tomorrow to confirm everything. hahaha |
Joey Braman
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| John - I am now in the same situation you are. I was wondering what you decided to do and how that decision is working out for you. Any comments or advice on what you did or if they are are scam would be greatly appreciated. Thank you. Joey Braman This email address is being protected from spam bots, you need Javascript enabled to view it |
Eldon Boge
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| I signed on with them and am not disappointed. They have taught me a lot and I now have a very nice website called Trailhorseriding.com. I signed on with the Shanklin Group for additional training. I still have my save coach and she is the best. I like there way of going about things. I would recommend them. Eldon Boge |
Garry
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| Hello all, I too was recently contacted from Shanklin / ESM. I actually joined last week! Aaahhh!!! Now I'm in a stir of paranoia as to whether or not I've truly been scammed. :( Aside from getting hooked from the whole contract thing, with guarantees, etc. I literally sat on the phone with them doing my research. I was directed to their business registry and was asked to look at their status, etc. From there, I was given a site that was supposedly a tame version of the program I was going to enroll in. After that, I was provided with a congratulatory recording from none other than Mike G himself! Have I truly been suckered? Anyway, immediately following; I was registered as a member for a business site that was stated in the contract. This site is legitimate and online seminars are actually really, really good! Problem is, they are heavily into the eBay type of business building... something I'm not really interested in. I have since escalated the matter to the membership administrator of the site that I was enrolled in. Other than that, I have yet to receive any further contact from Shanklin / ESM. I have emailed a question to the guy that sold me on it... but no response. Eeeks! I am still waiting for a business kit, planner, and personal contact from my personal mentor. If I don't get further response or answers, I will definitely contact my credit card company. To my understanding, the contract states that there is a 15% processing fee if I cancel beyond the cancellation period. I'm more than willing to lose $465 USD instead of $3100 USD. Has anyone else out there joined and received any sort of materials from Shanklin / ESM? Looking forward to all of your responses. Regards, Garry |
margor
said:
| I too almost got scammed on this e-commerce crap. Thanks guys for your comments. You save me and a host of others. Let's be more careful on the pressure tactic they use to get our monies. |
Andy Manning
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| I just joined the EMS / Shanklin Group, and was subjected to pressure selling to the max. I was so shocked by the guy named above that I managed to calm him down a bit. I then gave my card details wrongly to get him off the phone. He was over the moon and couldn't wait to get me through to verification. I gave my details to a girl, the person sounded as though they were in another room doing the completion which was large and echoed when she spoke. They played the tape to me and you could tell it was from a recorder in the room and the person was confirming that I had heard it. I immediately called my credit card company who said that they will put a stop on the transaction. I was also able to give all the details of the person who called there address etc... I was stopped by my card representitive who gave me the fraud department number and advised me to call them and give them the full details of this company. I wish I had found this digest before doing all of this. I am pleased to say that my card company said that any transaction on a card is covered for any fraud and monies would be recovered to my card and the company would be dealt with by the fraud department. So I hope these guys if they are scammers get whats coming to them! Regards, Andy |
Lynnette
said:
| Michael, I am wondering what your links and comments have to do with EMS? As far as I can see you're talking about a completely different company. EMS contacts people to go through training, whether that training is any good I have no idea because I have never signed up for it but I have been approached to. The thread you pointed us to in your first link I read all the way through (and it took ages!) and bears no resemblance whatsoever to how EMS work. These people on that forum work in offices, I don't see the connection at all. If there is a connection and I've missed it please let me know because I am interested in not losing money obviously. |
Bev Hanna
said:
| As a follow-up, a year and a half later, and since I am contacted several times a month by various people about my original post here, I'm repeating what I've told so many over the phone and by e-mail... My experience with Shanklin was somewhat less than stellar. I tried to get out of the contract, but they had already charged my card within an hour, despite saying they would wait 24 hours. Once the card company calls on the phone and you confirm with them that the charge is legitimate, there's nothing to be done. I called my lawyer to try to get out of it, since I really couldn't afford the $3,000.00 U.S. they charged me, but he told me that since it was cross-border (I'm in Canada), it would cost me more than that in legal fees and that I should go ahead with whatever I could get out of it. The tiny amount of information I got was fairly relevant and helpful, and it did help to put things in perspective, as I'd had no previous experience with e-commerce, but I haven't made back anything at all (only partly because I haven't had time to put all the pieces in place.) Their information on keywords is good, but they are 'WAY overpriced. Shanklin International and Educational Sales and Marketing or ESM, are part of Mike Glaspie's company and he doesn't have a conspicuous reputation for integrity. He touts banner ads as the way to go, and promotes the traffic swarm idea where you get points for going to other people's sites and staying for ten seconds. The more points you get, the more people go to your site, but since no-one is actually reading the information there, it's hardly a targeted market. A lot of their extras, such as information on setting up a U.S. physical location and workarounds for U.S. tax laws (at considerable additional expense) were irrelevant to me, since I don't have (or indeed want) a big business, and most of that is here in Canada. There are a lot of other ways to get the information you need at a lot less expense. Last year, I attended a seminar by Derek Gehl, and have purchased his Insider Secrets books, for about $200.00 U.S. (http://www.marketingtips.com/tipsltr.html) They have much of the same information as the Shanklin mentoring course, for a lot less money. I highly recommend it, as it's well thought out, and is very thorough. It's a very detailed, complete, take-you-by-the-hand course, and once you've got some sites up and making money, if you want more intensive training, you can sign up for his mentoring course (at $8,000!) if you want to get into one-on-one mentoring. Derek is the heir to Cory Rudl's business, and runs it as Cory would have done had he lived. Ken Evoy has his SiteBuildIt! program for about $300.00 a year including hosting, (http://www.sitesell.com/), and Liz Tomey has a nice little package starting at around $200.00. She's built her niche around truly helping and supporting beginning internet marketers (http://www.thegreatbigbookofinternetmarketing.com/) The single advantage of the Shanklin Group program is the accountability and the one-on-one phone time. I'm not a great self-starter, so it was helpful to talk to someone, but I had several calls with my mentor before I discovered that I was only allowed 8 calls in total, so I wasted a lot of calls. If you can afford it, the Shanklin program might, and I emphasise, only MIGHT, be worth it if you really apply yourself, do your homework and keep your phone calls strictly on-track. For me, it was a waste, as they didn't make the ground rules clear to me, so I wasted much time and a lot more money than I could afford (I'm still paying back the money I borrowed to take the course). In addition, my so-called mentor didn't know a whole lot more than I did and had to keep finding out information for me that he could give me on the next call. Eventually, after the fifth call, he was replaced, and I never did have a sixth. I have a lot more trust in Derek Gehl's "Insider Secrets" program. I built my own site before they contacted me, so I never incorporated the little information I did get from them, which was largely how to use keywords in the copy. As I learned more (from other sources), I discovered that what they were teaching was known as "keyword stuffing", which is very much frowned upon by the search engines. I'm an animal portrait artist, so I wanted a very visual site. Until I do begin to build e-commerce sites specifically for selling my art, as well as an e-book I'm writing, I won't be using keywords much. If you have been contacted by Shanklin, and can still get out of this thing, I would recommend that you do so. You can do better elsewhere. Hope this helps, Bev Hanna, S.C.A. ***************** FurPersons Animal Portraiture "Creating exquisite memories for discerning pet owners" http://www.bevhanna.com/ |
Ryan
said:
| Its hard for me to make a educated decesion as to what I want to do and what is real. I have someone on the phone saying one thing but then I have people like you all saying another. Non of the points you people are making are valid. It sounds that you people would rather complain and say scam then actually do it???? I think with anyhting in life there are good people and bad and I think if we focused on trying to find the positives instead of the negatives we would get alot further. As for you Bev, I think if you would have done just that in approaching it properly you would have got a lot further! All you other people need to get a life! Bev and a lot of us come here for real feedback and get our heads filled with garbage. I really want to make some money online and because people like you I cant make the informed decesion I need to. To all of our success, Ryan |
prasanna
said:
| hi guys.. i am a student.. and i was about to invest 4000$ in this cmpny.. i gave them my credit card details and i signed in their contract.. but when they tried to cash from my account.. the bank didnt allow bcos.. i had set a limit.. and only then i saw this blog.. so i called the bank and cancelled my card.. so that they cant take any money from my account.. but give me advice on how to handle these guys.. will i be in trouble for signing the contract??? please let me know.. iam worried.. |
Mark & Tracy
said:
| We were also contacted by the Shanklin Group or whatever name they are going by these days. It was a high pressure sales phone call. All we can say is STAY AWAY. We did give them our credit card number, but we did not sign their contract. They have been calling a least 10 times a day to trying or should we say pressuring us to get us to sign the contract. One further review of the contract, we tore it into many pieces. The contract only protects them, not you. DO NOT SIGN THE CONTRACT!!!! Have an attorney review the contract and we're sure they will say the same thing. DO NOT SIGN. I hope this helps anyone out there who is contacted by the Shanklin Group. As they say the rich keep getting richer. My question is, at whose expense? |
Mark & Tracy
said:
| When we further reviewed the contract we received but never signed there was a misc. portion that "the date of execution for this contract shall be the date that the financial transaction occurs or takes place" What a scam! Also you can contact them to void the contract within 3 business days to void the contract, but they charge you a junk fee of a 15% processing fee. We never signed the contract, but I'm still sending a certified letter about getting our money back that they charged to our credit card without a signed contract. My question is how can they charge you a "processing fee" or anything without a signed contract. I guess Utah law is different from other states. Stay AWAY!!!!!! |
Chris Braun
said:
| Hey there I also got a very pressured phone call today to join this program and I did find it a bit strange that they did not want to give you any details before you would give them your card but the promises were so good in addition to the fully money back guarantee if I would not make any money that they talked me into this. So I gave them my credit card over the phone. 10 minutes later I was phoned back and they told me the card was declined as my bank had locked the card due to the fact that it was a UK credit card as I am not from the US. They asked me to phone my bank straight away and have the card unlocked. Then I got suspicious and started reading the contract which I had just received by email. The eagerness to charge my credit card with £1200 was too fishy for me, so I phoned my bank and cancelled my card as I did not want to take any risks as ESM had asked for all my details including the 3 digit number on my credit card and as everybody knows you can buy whatever you want on the internet with your information. Luckily I have not signed the contract yet so hopefully legally I am under no obligation. They did tape my details and asked me to agree to enrol in the program which I found very strange as well. I hope this tape is not legally binding that I have to pay them anything, but than I have not signed the contract so I hope I get out of this okay. And after all this I searched the Internet and found your site. I should have done it before but those guys are so fast they don't give you time to think about it or/and do research. That should have warned me as well. It shows again: there is no quick way to riches. Did anybody else had their detail taped on the phone? |
Unonimous
said:
| Its fake its a scam theres a scrip that they follow and they get you into investing money in to supposably a tuition or a mentor. Whell the cost of it depends on how much money you got and how much money the can get out of you. the way they do that is by them asking you all these personal questions about money dont fall for it. Instead if everyone that has been unhappy all you need to do is file a complaint with the Consumer Protection agency. http://www.datcp.state.wi.us/cp/consumerinfo/cp/complaint-form/file_complaint.jsp |
Steve Pronger
said:
| Hi all, I've never been approached by this company. I arrived here as a subsciber of LED Digest. But, it seems this is an active thread and many people are finding this page via searches. Can I just offer a couple of tips? Never, EVER, give your credit card details to someone who approaches you out of the blue. For anything. Only give your credit card to someone you trust ABSOLUTELY, or where YOU have instigated the transaction and know who you are dealing with. Never, EVER, spend $3,000 to learn Internet Marketing or start any sort of online business. You are getting ripped off, period. Try Site Build It as Bev recommended above. $300 a year. Genuine. Real. Or, subscribe to LED (there's a link at the top of this page), ask lots of questions, and learn. For free. Cheers Steve Pronger stevepronger.com |
kr
said:
| Hello I got a call from these people also. I gave them my card info. and they also called me back and said that there was a hold on my card and for me to call my credit card company and get it taken off. When I told them that I did not want to go through with the deal, he degraded me and made me feel horrible. I asked if they would try to charge me again, and he told me that he thinks I didn't have money to begin with, so how can he charge me if I don't have any money. He then hung up on me. I didn't sign the contract, so I am not sure if I have any obligation to pay them. Does any one know if I should send the certified letter to cancle even though I havn't signed the contract, and they have not gotten any money from my credit card yet? |
Claire
said:
| I have been called twice recently following purchases of Internet based products through Clickbank - I am not happy that such personal details are being released. On that note, they claimed that they already had my credit card details, so if they wanted to cheat me, then there were easier ways...???? On the second occasion (which led to phone calls 3 and 4 in quick succession) there was very high pressure selling. I'm probably the most gullible person alive, but having been conned enough times already (and with grateful thanks to my daughter who was trying to contct me on the other line!) I managed to tear myself away. Up to that point I had not had enough time to investigate more thoroughly and could quite easily have agreed to work with them. Having got back from visiting my daughter, I find this thread. Thanks to you all for making the effort to write a few lines and keep the story in the public eye. Whe they ring me tomorrow evening, I'll be saying no thank you. For the sake of anyone coming searching - check out the Better Business Bureau - there have been four claims filed against Omnibiz Solutions in the last couple of years (only four?). It seems that they also go under a number of different names - The Shanklin Group=Omnibiz Solutions. I don't know whether it's a scam, but it certainly does NOT look like a good deal! |
Carmie
said:
| Hi all. I got aff the phone with the director of Shanklin a few minutes ago. I purchased an ebook online some time ago and after downloading the ebook there was a option to apply for one-on-one coaching. I filled it in assuming it was from the same people. A week after the purchase (yesterday) I was called by a junior customer care person. He spoke to me for quite some time and after realising that my credit card was maxed out, told me that the director will not take my call, cause he's the one making decisions on who was to be accepted into the program. He called again today and after I told him I had funds but it was not on the card (I had to still transfer it onto my credit card) he went to ask the director if he would take my call. Director wanted to know what the problem was why I couldn't transfer the funds. He called my after few minutes and explained everything. These people are very good. I gave my card nr, luckely there was no no funds avail. I am still to go through the contract, but thanks to all of you guys for posting your experiences. I will be instructing my c card company to not authorise the payment should they request the funds.I will also be contacting the merchant I bought the ebook from to find out if they are affiliated. I also think that Eldon Bog is affiliated to them and posted his good testimonial on their behalf. How can one person out of al of us be right? |
Cobus
said:
| To everyone on this thread, you all latch onto the same things and keep saying it's a scam, but has anyone (apart from Bev) actually enrolled and really given it a proper try? I have bought many products for making money on the internet and haven't made a cent out of using one of them, should I go on the internet and call it a scam in every forum I can find? Some people fall for herbalife and amway, are these scams? Some people do benefit from these things, others call it scams. If you buy a new vitamin and then you don't take it, can you say it's useless because you don't feel any better? I am looking for someone who has enrolled and actively tried to make money with this system and then I will judge for myself. |
Joan Coma
said:
| Hi all. I was just scammed today with two of our credit cards amounting to 4,410 australian dollars. I don/t know what to do. Can you please help me on how i coul;d get my money back. I paid it through credit card. I'm into very big debt now which i don't know how i could pay so please help me. |
Michelle
said:
| Hello everyone, These people are without a doubt con artists and Cobus, I have dealt with them personally. They almost got my money, but luckily I read this and was also very dissatisfied with the contract. I had to cancel my credit card. But an Anthony Seagin was so rude and unprofessional with me when I questioned the contract that I was appalled. I have never been spoken that way to before by a business professional. The whole operation is a scam. I can not find any connection with them and Michael Glaspie, but they throw his name around for credibility. There are no testimonies to be found on the internet and all you will find is this and some Ripp-off reports. Don't even think about spending a dime with these people. Nasty, rude, unprofessional con artists is all they are and all they want is your money. If you are not convinced, be sure to get the contract before you give them your credit card info or do not do business with them! |
Faye
said:
| Hello everyone Thanks for sharing all of your comments about Shanklin Group and there systems. I very nearly signed up and am glad I didn't after reading your comments. Saved myself $4000.00. Thank you all. |
G. Shumway
said:
| Are you kidding me... I live in the same city where this group is operating from. They are nothing but thugs ! in fact both of the main heads were in the county jail last month for other offenses |
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