Marketing & SEO Discussion List - LED Digest

Written by Viggie Bala
March 23, 2006

But javascript had strong advantages.  Over the years, Javascript entrenched itself as the default method for validating form submissions, slide shows & image roll-over effects.  It is true that Flash can do these things much better, but have it's own disadvantages. JavaScript plays pivotal roles in emerging technologies such as Web 2.0, Ajax, Ruby and Prototype, etc.  Of this AJAX seems to be arrived already. Google uses it extensively for Gmail & Map.  The speed and convenience of AJAXed sites are mind blowing.

The usability style promoted by AJAX seems to be the way to go. Some features might not be apparent for a layperson.  We do remember the old usability dictum: links must be blue & underlined etc., but we have come a long way and the layperson is also catching up.

The current crop of mobile phones crammed so many menus & features using the same no. of buttons as available 5 years ago.  And the average non-technical layperson seems to catch up.

Fuelled by Gmail & Google Map, the instant response style of AJAX may also catch up with general public quickly.  The trouble for web developers is, while the technology is not new, making them work together is not easy and needs experience.  Should we start to get ready for this?

Would like to know fellow LEDers opinion on the usage of AJAX in websites and it's disadvantages.

Viggie Bala

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Written by Lori Smart
March 24, 2006

Hi Viggie,

I’ve been a long time lurker here, leaving the posting to my business partner / husband. However, this is an area where I’m very interested in sharing my views. I'd like to first address your final question, then get back to what we do about Javascript.

I've looked into AJAX, as we love & use Google maps for absolutely everything! I'm excited about the possibilities it offers. At the same time, I'm a huge supporter of the WAI and making sites accessible to all. It seems that the functions of AJAX strongly rely on the GUI, which would really hinder alternative browsers and browser add-ins that help the disabled to access a web page. Having said that, I will still play around with it and see what else it can do. There are many ways to provide alternate content and I'm sure that work-arounds will be found. I say we play with it, find it's strengths and weaknesses and we'll be ready if it becomes the 'next big thing'!

As for the Javascript issues & some SEO opinions, I've never really seen proof that it's a problem for search engine ranking. We have many clients in top 10 searches using Javascript drop down menus. We start with a button or text link and use the drop down for very organized sub-menus. Then, in each of the sub-menu areas, we have text or button links to each of the same-area links. So if someone cannot access the drop down menus, they can still easily navigate the site, and spiders can easily get to every page we want crawled. Another factor is that instead of tons of code on each page of the site, we link to the scripts as an external file as we do with css.

And to add my 2¢ about another debate going on with file naming, we definitely find our clients' top 10 in Google are invariably the same sites that have used relevant key words in the file structure such as site.com/widgets/squarewidget.html and our ecommerce system automatically creates pages in this way as you build your product catalog.  The 'experts' can say what they want but the proof is in the first page listings!

Lori Smart

InternetDesign.com

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Written by Tom Aman
March 24, 2006

> We do remember the old usability dictum: links
> must be blue & underlined etc., but we have come
> a long way and the layperson is also catching up.

> The current crop of mobile phones crammed so many
> menus & features using the same no. of buttons as
> available 5 years ago.  And the average non-technical
> layperson seems to catch up.

    - Viggie Bala

Sorry, but I disagree with you.  The non-technical layperson will NEVER catch up (in some cases, they are more apt to give up).  They will just continue to be confused.

It is a real education to watch a relative new comer to Web surfing attempt to navigate some sites.  I am a technical non-layperson and I often encounter sites where navigation is non-apparent and/or difficult to figure out.  ("I know I saw it on this site somewhere but I can't figure out how to get back to the page!")  Navigation on a Web page and within a site should ALWAYS be simple and obvious - the blue and underlined, changing color when visited is still the best.  Javascript and Flash and other non-standard navigation, including drop-down menus, just makes navigation more confusing and non-obvious.  My wife, who has now been surfing the Web for two or three year, still has serious problems using drop-down menus.

As for mobile (cell) phones having become more and more crammed with menus and features using the same number of buttons, again the average non-technical layperson is not catching up.  Neither is the technical non-layperson.  They just never use most of the features since they have no idea where to find them, how to set them and / or what they mean.  In fact, most users (myself included) do not and never will need most of these features.

I carry my cell phone for emergencies so I can be contacted while I am out, so I can stay in touch with home, or so I can call for help (like the automobile club) if I need it.  My son carries one for the same reason, so does my daughter-in-law, so does my daughter, so does my other son.  None of us are interested in text messaging, browsing the Web from the phone, etc., etc.  None of us need most of the other fancy features, so all it means is that we are forced to pay a premium price for stuff we will never need.  All that I and most people really need is a basic phone to make and receive calls, possibly with a means of storing commonly called numbers. But just try and find such a simple phone!

Tom Aman

Aman Software

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Written by Peter D'Aprix
March 27, 2006

Since I am not a technical person and not a programmer, this thread does not mean a lot to me other than reminding me that the sink needs some attention. However, I received an email yesterday from a friend sending me a link to a new outfit with a similar name ajaxWrite.com. Apparently they use AJAX technology to deliver the software. It was a link to a newsletter called "Michael's Minute" by one Michael Robertson which started:

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"What if there was alternative for Microsoft Word that would install and open in 6 seconds, read and write Microsoft Word .doc files and run on Macintosh, Microsoft Windows or Linux computers? And oh yeah, it was free so consumers didn't have to pay $499 for Microsoft Office. I'm excited to announce that day is here."

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Too good to be true? Does anyone know about this? Has anyone tried it? Is it a hoax? You need FireFox to use it.

Peter D'Aprix - Visual Communications

peterdaprix.com

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Written by Viggie Bala
March 27, 2006

> I am a technical non-layperson and I often encounter sites

> where navigation is non-apparent and/or difficult to figure out.

    - Tom Aman

I've also fumbled in a few sites to find the navigation.  It is the way they designed the site (trying to be different & ending up with mouth in place of eyes etc.), but the same technology can be used in a subtle manner.

Google's Gmail is one example.  It doesn't show off latest technology, navigation is predictable and anyone can use it in the normal way.  But some of the screens appears instantly.  Anybody replying or forwarding in Gmail will find the striking difference.

Regarding mobile phones, I agree with Tom that I don't need more features.  I have to constantly guard my phone from my 9-year old kid, else he will go on play games & drain the battery. Luckily my plan doesn't allow WAP connection, else he will play with his friends thru phone.  Honestly, I still don't know how to connect to WAP from a mobile, but he does and played an online game once with another kid across the table using a guest's phone. It can be put this way, the usage of features are inversely proportional to the age of user. :)

The point about latest phones were, even though there are more features, it can be used in the same style as old phones.  Just punch the no's - click 'call' and it will still work.  We need to learn sequential button operations only if we want to use more feature.

We can add features the same way in websites.

Regards,

Viggie Bala

viggie.com