Marketing & SEO Discussion List - LED Digest

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<Moderator Comment>

A new millennium has arrived with little fanfare; but as we
begin the decade, century, and millennium I'd like to wish
all of you a happy New Year, and thank you for your continued
participation in this excellent list.

Lest there be any confusion, there was no Digest for Tuesday;
it may have been a mistake somewhere, but the instructions I
received from Adam indicated that the first one of the new
year should be dated Wednesday January 3.

M. J.  Young, interim moderator.
This email address is being protected from spam bots, you need Javascript enabled to view it

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From: Lisa Melvin <lisam[AT]webadvantage[DOT]net>
Subject: Promoting local sites

Fellow LEDers,

I've been given the task of coming up with innovative ways to
promote local sites. I'm targeting a geographically restricted
web site audience and looking for some promotional ideas for
both on-line and off-line advertising.

I've already planned a flyer campaign and have found a small
number of geographically specific directory-type sites. I've
also lined up some small ad space in local newspapers and
periodicals.

Any other good ideas?

Thanks in advance for any input,

Lisa Melvin
Web Ad.vantage, Inc.
http://www.webadvantage.net

==== CONTINUING ==================================

From: Carol O'Leary <comments[AT]homes4sbo[DOT]com>
Subject: Do it yourselfers

Hello LED'ers,

I can't stay out of the do-it-yourself vs. professional debate
anymore! I am an avid DIY advocate, with several caveats:

1. Doing it yourself works best if you have a complex or
changing subject matter. Dr. Mani falls into this category,
he has a complex subject that requires intimate knowledge of
the content in order to create an easy-to-navigate site. My
site also falls into this, I am posting and removing ads for
houses all the time.

2. We aren't talking about Fortune 500 companies. Having a
site that is out of character with the general image of the
company is just thoughtless. I know of a local mortgage
brokerage that has about the crappiest site I've ever seen,
it looks like a first-timers very first homepage rough draft;
that is hardly admirable do-it-yourself spirit.

3. If you're going to "do it yourself" for goodness sake then
DO it. By that I mean really *learn* how, learn about SE
optimization, learn about graphic reduction, meta tags, the
whole works. Editor software does a good job of making this
easier but it still takes effort. Hiring the teen next
door does NOT constitute doing it yourself. I was wondering
when someone was going to point out that anyone subscribing
to this discussion list was hardly a "2 hour site creator".

4. Truthfully evaluate how well-designed your end product is.
My site(s) are navigable and quick-enough loading (I am donning
an asbestos suit even as I type) though the older one needs some
overhauling for re-organizing the content. Neither one looks
like a graphic artist has ever had their paws on it, though--
which is absolutely true! They're just functional. I often joke
that at least they make more money than Amazon.com does; for
some of us, that's the whole point.

5. Kindly tell me, what constitutes a 'professional' anyway? I
had a former employer pay me for a brochure-type site, does
having been *paid* make me a pro? I'm sure some of you have had
the good fortune to have studied this in college or taken other
courses, but I'm also sure that some of the pros are self-taught,
too! Be fair to those of us oldsters who went to school when
typewriters were used to produce term papers, we've spent a
fair amount of time learning to do what it takes to keep a
business going on the internet, too, but we learned it by doing
and experimenting.

Carol O'Leary
Do-It-Yourself Real Estate
http://homes4sbo.com

------- new post - same topic -------

From: A. R. Khaliq <khaliq[AT]brecorder[DOT]com>
Subject: Don Harthcock's Another Shot at the Professionals

>From Don Harthcock's Another Shot at the Professionals LED#989

 > I realize that I haven't the expertise to design a web site
 > that would pass inspection by many of your contributors,
 > who don't get it that I wouldn't want to please them. Does
 > the word "appropriate" mean anything to anyone? Self-
 > aggrandizement and mental masturbation do not build careers
 > effectively, fellas. The perfection that some of you are
 > seeking, will only please other professionals like yourself.
 > This is not good business, or grown-up thinking. I don't
 > seek "slick, polished and professional." I seek "unique,
 > different, stands-out-from-the-rest."

Wrong! Wrong! Wrong! The fact that you have your website up
and running indicates that you have the expertise. It has
passed at least my inspection. After seeing your website I
was reminded of a book by a management guru, I foget his name
...probably it was Ducker...or maybe it was Drucker. He
preached lateral thinking to executives. Your design is a
classic example of his lateral thinking. I went over a couple
of links. Had I been interested in herbs and, most important,
had I been twenty years younger, probably I would have visited,
sorry, explored, sorry tried out many more. I enjoyed your
toungue in teeth, sorry tongue in cheek claim and stuff. And
now my advice to you about the likes of me, the "professionals".
Don't ever heed them if you don't want to. If you like your
website and its design, well and good. If luckily there are
others, sorry some others, sorry many others who like it, it's
even better. The most important thing in any project is what
it wants to achieve. My appraisal is that your site achieves
what it wants to achieve. It will even have an eager audience,
if you can find it. Instead of thinking about us "professionals"
think how you can reach your target audience. In the final
analysis if you discover the target audience is not sufficient
enough to justify your site, get in touch with some "professional".
Personally, I honestly feel the content and design both should be
able to find its lovers.

A.R.Khaliq,
Webmaster
http://brecorder.com

------- new post - new topic -------

From: Tom Reinhart <VBTomKid[AT]yahoo[DOT]com>
Subject: Copyrights

Hey LEDers!

It wasn't until Linkexchange Digest #986 that I finally
brought myself to asking my question. Jeff in his post
talked about his copyright notice as something that you can
just alter and adjust like the content on your site. Can you
just post these notices wherever you please or are there any
legal processes that you have to go through first?

I'm not too familiar with this topic so this may seem like a
stupid question but this has been bothering me for some time
now. I'd be happy to have it all sorted out.

Tom

Tom Applications
http://www.TomApps.com/

------- new post - same topic -------

From: Dustin Woodard <dustin[AT]merrimancapital[DOT]com>
Subject: Outdated materials

Although he was attacked for his copyright posting, I think
Jeff Singer is onto something.

There are many sites that fail to pay attention to what is on
their site. For example, I frequently see links to Y2K notices
on even the largest of sites. The threat of the Y2K bug is long
past, yet they keep this useless information posted on their
homepages!

This brings up the point that we, as the site builders and
maintainers, need to visit our sites frequently an put ourselves
in the shoes of a visitor to the site, because I fear it is often
the case where the site's visitors have a better understanding of
the site then the site's owners.

Dustin Woodard
http://www.FundAdvice.com

------- new post - same topic -------

From: Peter Hupalo <hcmpublishing[AT]com@hcmpublishing[DOT]com>
Subject: Is the Internet Doomed?

Hi,

Andy Graham wrote in LED #989

 > My prediction for the internet.
 > It will evolve.
 > Within 5 years. We will no longer type into the computer.
 > Within 5 years will see pictures, and talk live to people.
 > 85 percent of people cannot read, or type. If Microsoft,
 > IBM, Compaq, want to tap that market, they have to make
 > it easier for them...well....brady bunch types.

I'm not so sure. Maybe voice will transfer to text via speech
recognition, but text is a great format for sharing ideas.
E-mail has already replaced the telephone as the main means
of communication in many companies. Partly, this is because
text is easier to recall, retrieve, and double check. It's
easier to compose your ideas and convey more complex messages
(and delete ones dumber ideas). It's relatively fast to scan
for specific points, unlike a recorded audio message. This is
one reason companies have infamous memos, even when all people
can just get together and talk.

The Internet was never designed to be used by the "masses."
With a few exceptions, most of its development has focused
upon serving the needs of an elite few and I don't think
this will change. It's true many can't read, but unfortunately
also, those people are largely poor. They don't represent a
profitable market, and MS, etc., will certainly not target
them as consumers.

Some consumers will lose interest in the internet, but it
will evolve and become more central to business (probably
involving more database interactivity via XML and JAVA). And,
of course, the Internet will be used to convey information
between academic researchers and such, as did gopher, the
Internet's predecessor.

Of course, some sites will become major consumer successes,
such as eBay.com, which is a highly addictive site. Maybe,
the Internet will be used to educate people, for example
integrating text and speech and pictures to teach more people
to read. Then, they will earn more and MS, etc. will target
them as consumers. And, they'll bid against me on eBay!
Darn....Oh, well, I guess we all need to live with competition.

Peter Hupalo
Thinking Like An Entrepreneur

http://www.hcmpublishing.com

==== GEEK TIPS ====================================

From: Sherry Palmer <creekside[AT]localaccess[DOT]com>
Subject: Web Site Updates

I have a problem with my browser when I try to view my web
Page (URL below).
My browser IE 5.50 brings up my old web site (it has
sunflowers) instead of the current revised web site with the
wormlady logo. I have viewed it on a second computer located
in the same room and using the same ISP but using Netscape
and it also shows my old site.

Recently I moved my domain from my local ISP provider (Local
Access) to a new host (ADDR.COM). And shortly after that
revised the web site. I could not view the revisions. My
browsers (both computers) keep showing the old web site (it
has sunflowers). The only way I can see the correct version
is to go to my user site: www.creekside.addr.com

Other people don't seem to have any problem viewing the site
and I have viewed it from computers at other locations with
no problem.

I have deleted all of the temp internet files in windows, but
it did no good. I have a feeling it has something to do with
my ISP (Local Access) server, but it is hard to get them to
look into the problem since they are not hosting my domain
any more.

Any suggestions??

Thanks
Sherry Palmer
Creekside Gardens
http://www.wormlady.com/

------- new post - new topic -------

From: Veronica Yuill <veronicay[AT]archetype-it[DOT]com>
Subject: Web site ghost

Hi all,

I was quite concerned by some of the advice given regarding
Vedrana's "website ghost" problem. Reformatting the hard
drive or replacing the computer seem like rather extreme
solutions to a single web page that won't display properly!
If I were the client in question it would hardly inspire
confidence if I were told to do this. Especially as in this
particular case these solutions would not have solved the
underlying problem, which was to do with absolutely positioned
layers.

My reaction in this situation is always to assume first that
there is a problem with the HTML, not the computer. So if
other LED-ers encounter this type of problem, I urge you to
first run the HTML through a validator and/or visit a site
such as www.anybrowser.com (as Rina Chen suggested). Either
of these solutions would likely have shown up the cause of the
display problems.

Just my (second) 2 centimes ...

Regards

Veronica Yuill
Archetype Information Technology Ltd
http://www.archetype-it.com/english/

From: Nita Awatramani <nawatramani[AT]hotmail[DOT]com>
Subject: Multiple domains at a single web host

Hi,

I just wanted to thank all LEDers for their suggestions and
pointers here on LED and via e-mail. I haven't made up my
mind about which path to follow but I will do so in about a
month's time. I shall definitely be back on this forum to ask
for your opinions.

I did want to clarify one thing. Most LEDers assumed that my
question about frames was whether frames on my site would
affect the re-direction. I may have been misleading in my
initial post. What I wanted to clarify was whether the
re-direction is done by the web hosting service through the
use of frames or by modifying their DNS information. That is
what Geocities does when you opt for their GeoPlus service
and is one of the main reasons that I want to move to another
web hosting service. My site does not use frames and, if I may
say so myself, there is no other site on Urdu poetry which
comes close :-) Yet most search engines either can't find my
site or ranks it very low because of the frames employed by
Geocities.

One again thank you for all your suggestions. I have learnt a
lot in the few days that I have been reading LED and I am sure
I will continue to do so.

Keep smiling

Nita Awatramani
http://www.urdupoetry.com

==== BILLBOARD ====================================

From: Tom Aman <amant[AT]cyberspyder[DOT]com>
Subject: Why Are Frames Bad Design?

In LE Digest #986, John Sheppard raised the frames question
again.

 > Both the disadvantages have work arounds, does anyone have
 > any thoughts on this matter? There must be something im
 > missing cause none of the really popular sites use frames...

Read the All Things Web discussion at
http://www.pantos.org/atw/35617.html

The basic problem with frames is that they "break" the basic
Navigation paradigm around which the Web was originally designed.
They hid the URL of the content you are viewing and make
bookmarking more difficult (you can no longer just "Add to
Favorites" since the add will add the framing URL, not the page
of content you want to be able to get back to. Also, even when
frames are supposedly "well done", what appears as desired in
one browser on one operating system may not appear so well set
up in another browser on another operating system.

As John noticed, "none of the really popular sites use frames".
Even Netscape, the originator of the frames tags, no longer uses
frames for a large part of its sites. In short, frames are usually
not a good idea, although there are some VERY, VERY specialized
situations where they work. If you have a choice, don't use them.

Tom Aman
Aman Software
http://www.cyberspyder.com/

------- new post - same topic -------

From: Carmen Harper <charper[AT]drd[DOT]state.sc.us>
Subject: Frames Pages

In LED 986, John Sheppard asked

 > I have seen alot of people on LED saying that frames should
 > not be used. I am wondering why? I can see a few advantages
 > of using frames....

I work with a government site and we are dealing with
accessibility issues for differently-abled people. We have been
told to stay away from frames so that software used by visually
impaired people will work correctly with our pages. I'm not sure
how this software works or how other similar software might work
and I am interested in any knowledgeable comments about this
issue. Does anyone know if and how frames affect the usability
of a site for those using alternative browsing software?

Carmen Harper
http://www.state.sc.us/energy/

------- new post - new topic -------

From: Karen Karlik <kcktxx[AT]msn[DOT]com>
Subject: Advertisers

I am in need of advertisers on my page. I am sure that some
are better than others. How do I go about finding these. Is
there a site that rates them?

Thank you,
Karen Karlik
www.comeshoptheworld.com

------- new post - new topic -------

From: Rina Chen <zanzan2000[AT]ivillage[DOT]com>
Subject: bCentral

Hello Ohumukini-san,

In response to your question about bCentral, I am not their
customer but just an bcentral affiliate. I believe that
merchants should look beyond the experiences of other
affiliate warehousing customers because without affiliates,
merchants are just merchants without "little sales people"
(affiliates).

As an bcentral.com affiliate, I am not allowed to apply for
programmes from different pages/categories at one go.

For example, if there are 5 webmaster affiliate programmes in
one category that I wish to join and they appear on pages 2,
5, 6, 7, and 9 respectively, I would have to key in my user
name and password for every affiliate programme I join and
taken to an area where I get my html codes or to be instructed
that my application to join as an affiliate of a retailer would
be put up for review by the merchant. After that, I would be
brought back to the "homepage" and I would have to manually
click go to the category again for the subsequent affiliate
programme from the same category.

bcentral.com also does not allow affiliates to collect all html
codes at one go. So if I have joined some programmes yesterday
that I want to "collect" the html codes to put at my site today
(after merchant's approval), I would have to rely on bcentral's
notification "You're Accepted" that a certain merchant has
approved my application to join as an affiliate.

If I have applied to be an affiliate of gghhtfd.com for example
only remembering it to be a gift store, I would have a hard time
finding its html code on another day because there are more than
200 links for "gift store"; unless I remember gghhtfd.com is the
merchant, I do not think I could find the html code easily again.
Affiliates rely on these codes to link potential buyers or web
visitors to their sponsoring merchants' websites.

Other than these problems, bcentral is pretty ok and they have a
good technical support for both affiliates and customers.

If you want a list of other affiliate warehousing web sites (I
have newer links than most webmasters do) that you want to use
for your own comparison and conclusion in terms of pricing, etc
please email me at rina[AT]ajunksiteofresources[DOT]com

Regards,
Rina Chen
http://ww8.terrashare.com