Marketing & SEO Discussion List - LED Digest

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Greetings,

To the relief of many of you, I think this will be the last issue
we'll discuss "The Busines End of Free Websites". If you haven't
noticed, this thread has been following a redundant, circular
pattern for the last seven issues. Amazingly it has found new life
in this digest even though we exhausted it once before in
month-long thread entitled "Free vs. Fee". Let's put it to rest...
and hope it doesn't have a cat's endurance. :-)

Stay tuned: The Special 2000 Edition of the LED is up next...

Happy New Year!

Cheers,
Adam < This email address is being protected from spam bots, you need Javascript enabled to view it '; document.write( '' ); document.write( addy_text72582 ); document.write( '<\/a>' ); //-->\n This email address is being protected from spam bots, you need Javascript enabled to view it >

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From: Rachelle Annechino < This email address is being protected from spam bots, you need Javascript enabled to view it >
Subject: New advertising techniques

In response to Marek Kosznik, LED 743:

 >Instead of looking for individual buyers, I thought that our
products could be distributed for free... Of course, it's not a new
idea. There is a large number of free sponsored computer products
(but they just display a banner like on the Web pages). I wanted to
go farther. Our products could include more information about
sponsors, they could be customized for a group of sponsors... and
they should be of the best quality with no limits on the
distribution techniques...<

Free sponsored software - sounds like a great idea. The site I'm
involved with is a newcomer to the online organizer category that's
also trying out a new way to promote sponsors. Along with the usual
to do list/calendar capabilities, the site plans to feature
*useful* lists contributed by our sponsors that can be imported
into the user's own to do lists. A travel outfitter, for example,
might provide a list of things to bring to the Caribbean; a
financial firm might list investment tips, etc. The list sponsor's
name, logo and link is included in the list title, and will,
eventually, be attached to each list item.

We think this could be a great way for both our users and our
sponsors - the user gets genuinely useful information instead of
being bombarded by irrelevant advertising, and the sponsor gets a
positive branding opportunity as well as a low-key method of
advertising that appeals to a younger, media-savvy generation.

Right now we're still building a database of sites to solicit, so I
don't know what the response rate will be. But I have to say, the
most difficult thing about this so far has been finding a way to
express the idea to potential sponsors clearly and concisely. Maybe
there's something we can do to improve our approach...
unfortunately, I don't know what it is. Any ideas out there?

Rachelle Annechino

SGP, Inc.
http://www.e2do.com

++++ new post - new topic ++++

From: Bob Sharpe < This email address is being protected from spam bots, you need Javascript enabled to view it >
Subject: Use of free webpages for business

There are two issues here:

1. Whether or not a person has a domain
2. Who hosts the web site

A person needs a domain name to look like a serious business. $70
for 2 years (less than a dime a day) is a small price to pay for
the benefits of the professionalism it conveys.

A URL like www.somefreeserver.com/members/~profit101.com --

1. Looks unprofessional
2. Is difficult to remember
3. Is difficult to type in
4. Is easy to mistype

On the other hand, www.profit101.com gives a professional
appearance, even if it is on a free site - as long as there are not
pop up windows and any banners from the free site look like they
belong on the page.

A free site with a domain is a good way to start on a shoestring.
Then, as the business grows, a person can graduate to a paid site
without a banner.

Bob Sharpe, CAS

The Home Business Career Center
http://www.profit101.com


++++ new post - same topic ++++

From: Andrew  Mercer < This email address is being protected from spam bots, you need Javascript enabled to view it >
Subject: Free v Pay

I have read with interest industry pro's "doing the downer" on free
hosting services.

I have an established offline business and I am using free hosted
pages to promote the services I offer offline. I look on it as a
very cost effective way to promote specialist services to a
potential client base that in the main already knows the business
exists but can now find out easily which services I can and can't
offer them. As an extension to conventional print advertising its
great, it gives me much more detail than Yellow Pages... and by
including the URL in their add I get local interest.

I use Freeserve in the UK, and have to say as someone relatively
new to all this, I am pretty impressed with their service. Nice
free graphic creation, no pop-up adds, the pages load quickly
enough for me. I also quite like my URL
htttp://www.kingscarpets.freeserve.co.uk, especially when it costs
me nothing.

Does my case (and Frederick Pearce's) prove that free hosting
actually works and serves a purpose? More and more local businesses
are getting on-line and don't plan to operate globally and
therefore don't need the "all singing and dancing" hosting
services. Can't help feeling that there is just a little bit of
professional self interest creaping into the debate.

OK I'm asking for it ! I can't see whats wrong with using free
hosting ?

Andrew Mercer
http://www.kingscarpets.freeserve.co.uk

++++ new post - new topic ++++

From: Tracy Coyle < This email address is being protected from spam bots, you need Javascript enabled to view it >
Subject: Re: SEO, Banners and Strategic Linking

Greg White wrote,

 >Your site is weak on content that the search engines can focus
on, hardly any of your keywords repeat in the body of your page.
They should repeat 3 to 5 times.<

This is one spot where the Attorney's preference is guiding
content. The intent is to create a relationship (branding if you
wish) with clients and potential clients. We are slowly adding some
content without offering legal guidance.

Chris Cooke wrote,

 >Your product is essentially a human resource, therefore it is
particularly important to add a human element.<

I want to make a very large point here. When you have a product to
sell, you concentrate on the product characteristics and
attributes. When you have a service to sell, you concentrate on
your service, experience and abilities.

An attorney (and a doctor for that matter) has knowledge to sell.
It is among the most intangible. You expect a certain skill or
ability from these types of professionals but it is the personality
that often "sells" the client. When people are looking for an
attorney, 20+ years of legal experience says they have most of the
solution, they are looking for an advocate they can trust. How
would YOU design a website to "sell" this 'service'? Fancy office
pictures, big plush offices, or a set of statements presented in a
conversational tone that describe your attitudes and beliefs. Greg
White asked what are we trying to accomplish, and I think the site
begins to present Victoria in a manner she is comfortable with.

<snip>
 >... because of the vast amount of information on the web, there
is a large amount of competition for the viewers time. I find that
many companies spend many hours of time and enormous amounts of
money trying to bring viewers to a very poorly designed web site.<

But by what standards do you determine a site is poorly designed?
Our site loads quickly, navigates easily and you get a feel that
this is not your average stuffy, cold attorney looking for your
money. Read our newsletter www.cazelaw.com/newsletter.htm Also, our
tag line: Our family helping your family.

My job as site designer is to get people to the site and get them
to call. Of all the millions of people on the net, our target is
about 15-20,000 people in our area that will need an attorney over
the next year. But like doctors, most people don't think about an
attorney until they need one. Then, we want them to remember us.
Those little stories in each area of practice may not make good
search engine fodder, but people remember the story.

Again, I very much appreciate the analysis. Making me think and
review the site with your comments in mind helps me to modify the
site to continue to serve the clients and still make us accessible
to the engines and directories.

<snip>
 >One of the most important elements of search engine placement is
keyword density and placement. The copy of your web site should be
written to repeat certain important keywords. Search engines will
place more relevance on keywords placed in certain areas and will
also penalize sites for repeating words too many times.<

I will continue to work to get around what I perceive to be a fault
in engine design. (The premise that if a word is important to the
site, it will be repeated often. When you meet a person, do you
say, "As a website designer I often help people with their website
design. And, as a website designer, I try to help clients that are
trying to do their own website design understand that I am a
professional website designer so that their website design meets
the expectations of people searching for their type of website." Or
do you state "I help people understand how a website should be
designed in order to maximize the responsiveness of the site.")

I had an arguement with a person tasked with installing ERP in a
major corporation. I said computers help business when it allows a
company to grow and change as it needs to meet the demands of the
marketplace. When computers (or software) dictate how a business is
to be run, the company can NOT change to meet the marketplace. No
matter the perceived benefit, companies must make computers bend to
their needs, not the other way around.

Search engines will have to change because people like me hate
getting 4,000 pages from +wisconsin +attorney +bankruptcy when the
first dozen are newspaper reports from California about some
company being forced into bankruptcy because of fraud.

Tracy Coyle
http://www.cazelaw.com

==== GEEK TIPS ========================================

From: Dominik Deobald < This email address is being protected from spam bots, you need Javascript enabled to view it >
Subject: Re: Websites and User Accessibility

Brian Bradley wrote,

 >I cannot agree with forcing people to large expensive machines
when good web design makes it unnecessary...<

I believe it always depends on your customers, how you should set
up your webpages. Of course, companies like Amazon.com or other
online shops which want to sell goods to all kind of customers all
over the world should use a compatible style in their HTML.

But what about others? Just have a look at some of my projects.

First, I have a webpage, where I want to spread software for
Windows9x computer-systems (URL below). Should I not use high-end
HTML if I can assume that almost every visitor of my webpage has
the latest browsers and modern computers? People downloading
software also often have a fast connection to the internet, so I
can allow myself to optimize my pages for connections of 56k and
faster.

Another - new - project is my Webmaster-Index (
http://www.spherical-bytes.de/wi/ ), a connection of links which
are useful for webmasters (where do I get... where can I find... ).
This is a page for people who want to get their information as fast
as possible - no fancy graphics! (BTW: If you have to offer
something for webmasters, you can submit a link to your service and
I will be happy to include it to my collection).

So what do I want to tell you? Think about what you want to sell.
Then think about your customers. Who are they? What kind of hard
and software do they use? Do you have to take care of people who do
not have the latest, or in other words, do you lose customers if
you use more recent technology? After you have thought about that,
you can start to set up your pages - not earlier!

Dominik Deobald

Spherical Bytes
http://www.spherical-bytes.de

==== BILLBOARD ========================================

From: Larry Boardman < This email address is being protected from spam bots, you need Javascript enabled to view it >
Subject: Long domain names

 From our "For What It's Worth" department.

We decided to try the new long (greater than 26 character) domain
names as an experiment to see if they will help index pages on the
search engines. The first one we picked was
www.website-promotion-and-optimization.com. This is mirrored to our
site.

After 48 hours we appeared under the keywords "website
optimization" (#1 in Open Directory and SNAP) and "website
promotion and optimization" (#1 in Open Directory.) It appears that
keyword rich domain names do work. The name must, of course,
coincide with the subject of the site.

There are some limits to making these work. In time I expect that
search engines may stop listing mirrored domains and we will have
to have the name directed to it's own site. For now, the results
are "interesting". It looks like possibly what some are calling
another DOT COM rush! For more information as we monitor the
results, check our website at http://www.thewebdr.com/long/

Best Wishes for a Happy Y2K!

Larry Boardman, The Web Dr. SM

Electronic Marketing, Inc.
http://www.thewebdr.com