| LED Digest 1919: The Linked Web |
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================================================== The LED Digest Moderated Discussion List "Effective Online Advertising, Since 1997" pair Networks: The LED's Web Host Hosting and Domain Reg. from a Trusted Leader pair.com for Hosting | pairNIC.com for Domains ================================================== List Moderator: Published by: Adam Audette LED Digest adam,led-digest.com http://www.led-digest.com ............................................... January 13, 2005 Issue #1919 ............................................... .....IN THIS DIGEST..... ==== CONTINUING ================= --== Problems for Linkers ==-- ~ Ahmed Saad "Linking is usually discussed as if one strategy fits all sites." ~ Steve Pronger "$60,000 [paid advertising] vs $0. The point's pretty obvious to me." ~ John Smart "I think you have to examine closely what sites you link to." ~ Michael Linehan "The best link is one that is truly useful for your clients." ==== BILLBOARD =================== --== Dropped by Google ==-- ~ Lorelle Smith ~ Reg Charie --== Flash Games? ==-- ~ Lisa Alvarado --== CSS Cross-Browser Issue ==-- ~ Charles Oertel ===== CONTINUING ================================= From: Ahmed Saad Subject: Linking > I spend on the average US$5000 a month advertising both > online and in print media... WHY would I want to attract people > to my website and then, when they get there, send them to > some other website? Especially when considering that about > half my traffic is from PPC advertising, I just do not see the > point. - Robert Bass, LED 1917 Linking is usually discussed as if one strategy fits all sites. Often times, the linking topic is more relelvant to content sites than it is to commerce sites. While it makes sense to have relevant outgoing links on a content site, it certainly does not when it comes to an online selling site. The general goal is to remove any obstacle between the customer and the final invoice and a link is certainly an obstacle. That leaves one option and that is to put the link on a "links" page that may have one little link to it from the home page way in the bottom of the page. This is certainly not useful to send direct traffic to anyone, and from a SE point of view, who knows. It may or may not help, but we have had highly tweaked pages with nobody linking to them (and only a handful to the site itself) gaining first places in very critical search terms. So unless no one else is targeting those search terms (which we know is not the case) those pages should be competing for the worse ranks not the best. Linking is certainly useful for content sites as it provides the service of connecting to other useful sites for the visitor. One still need to make sure that a- the linked-to site is indeed useful and suitable to the visitors, and b- such site is not in direct competition to yours. If your industry has this kind of content sites it can give you a great boost if they link to you. Other reasons a content site will link out is generating income. Paid advertisments, affiliate, ...etc. If commercial business does not expect an online sale (e.g. restaurant, dentist, etc.) then linking can be suitable depending on the website goals. Other than that, it is not wise for an online commerce site to link out to any site unless it happens to be a sister site where losing the sale in one store may mean a sale in the other. We never see a map, flier, or offer for Safeway displayed in Walmart or Sears. Check the sites of the big boys online and you will only see link-outs at a very small percentage of them and none of them are reciprocal links but rather paid ads. The argument that the small is different may be true on many levels but this is not one of them. The argument that the small guy needs it for SE optimization is rejected by our success with well ranked pages with little or no links at all. The few links that some have are from relevant content sites, affiliates and non-affiliate. Ahmed Saad Technology Matrix Group http://techmatrix.com ------- new post - same topic -------- From: Steve Pronger Subject: Linking > I spend on the average US$5000 a month advertising > both online and in print media, a proper sum, no? - Robert Bass, LED 1917 Indeed. A proper sum. My monthy spend? $0. Assuming your main targeted keyword is "vintage glass beads", a check on Keywords Analyzer shows 217 searches and 305,000 page matches. That indicates there is not a lot of competition for those keywords and high rankings would not require a huge number of backlinks. Google indicates you have 13, some from link directories (wonder how that happened). My main targeted kewords are "create website". My ranking on Google - 4, from 36,600,000 pages. On MSN - 1, from 17,106,589. How? Lots of content, basic on-page optimisation, directory listings.... and reciprocal links. > Especially when considering that about half my traffic > is from PPC advertising, I just do not see the point. $60,000 PA vs $0. The point's pretty obvious to me. Steve Pronger http://www.stevepronger.com ------- new post - same topic -------- From: John Smart Subject: Linking > Google may like to see one's link on a million other websites > but don't they realize that most of these are from link farms > and the like and have nothing to do with merit or relevance? - Robert Bass, LED 1917 I am sure Google (and the other main search engines) are fully aware about link farms, and my understanding is that inclusion on a link farm is detrimental to a sites ranking. I think, to over simplify, there are two ways of viewing what a web site is. The 'traditional' way is that a web site is a platform - a document of information that links to related documents of information. Given that no single person (or usually, no single entity (corporation, charity, school, whatever) can fully cover one topic, it is logical to include links to outside information to complete the data you are working on. Then there is the new way - the 'commercial' way. In this, as Robert says, why would you want to pay to send people to competitors? A valid question, and clearly you don't want to lose a sale. I think you have to examine closely what sites you link to. An example - we own a company that sells computer mice that look like animals (www.mousestuff.com). In the past we have linked from the animal mice to animal related pages. So if you look at the panda mouse, you will find links to panda resources, panda charities, etc (These links are not there at the moment - this is not a reflection on the effectiveness of their usage - we are rebuilding the site, and those will be the last thing to go in!) Links like that are worth including - they expand our web site way beyond our abilities, they give our guests something to look at which will almost certainly interest them, and it does not promote a competitors product. Looking at Roberts site (www.jewelex.com) I cannot help but wonder (and I apologize if these items are within the pages - I didn't see them on a pretty quick pass through) if links to stone cleaning, to chain cleaning, and other maintenance, to how to find stones, to clubs for people who go hunting for them etc would help - and would such links (carefully chosen) hinder? It may give the visitor a more complete experience, saving them from using Google to find another site that could well take their money! John Smart, Technical Director InternetDesign.com - A Human Touch in a Digital World ------- new post - same topic ------- From: Michael Linehan Subject: Linking > Why would I want to attract people to my website and then, > when they get there, send them to some other website? - Robert Bass, LED 1917 Because, if you have made a link with a "related but non-competing business", they will be sending you people too. That viewer will be happy they don't have to continue burrowing through Google and may remember the generous assistance you gave them. It's like you going into a retail store that isn't afraid to recommend you to another store that can supply what you need that day. You're happy and you may very well remember that store for another time or for a referral. > As I reflect on the ability of links to reflect popularity, > I can't recall more than five times in the last five years > that I have actually accessed a links page for > suggested links... - William Ernest Waites, LED 1917 The best link is one that is truly useful for your clients. Links can bring people directly; search engine presence is then gravy. And, the best place is not on a links page, but in the middle of relevant content. If I wanted to recommend you, the best place would be on a page where I am talking about (e.g.) copywriting. That's where your potential client WILL be. I'm not recommending dropping a links page - just putting them throughout the site also. Michael Linehan www.marketing-alchemy.com ==== BILLBOARD =================================== From: Lorelle Smith Subject: Google > I currently am experienceing some problems with my > site in Google. If I search by domain name, it brings up > the site perfectly. If I however use the Google ranking > tool (googlerankings.com) it does not find my site > under specific keywords. - Mark Mucke, LED 1918 Mark Mucke says he has problems with "Google Ranking." Mark, have you *formally* researched the keywords you want to rank well for, or are you just guessing? Have you checked the other sites that come up in the top 30 for those keywords, and are you POSITIVE your site *deserves* to be listed above them? Your "Google ranking tool" (googlerankings.com) is a 3rd-party application not officially sanctioned or approved by Google. Look at the footer: "Googlerankings.com is in no way affiliated, sponsored or in any way the property of or responsibility of Google.com." So I don't know how much I'd rely on their results. Have you tried using Google.com itself to check your rankings? Finally, has your site truly been optimized properly? Let us see the URL and judge for ourselves. Many of us on this list will be glad to do free or very inexpensive site reviews. If all is well with on-the-page optimization, then yes, your problems may well be from inadvertently linking your site to "bad neighborhoods." But there are a zillion other things to look for as well. Hope this helps get you on your way to top rankings, Lorelle Smith Search Engine Marketing & Keyword Phraseology Consultant http://www.keywordsmith.com ------- new post - same topic ------- From: Reg Charie Subject: Google I took a look at googlerankings.com and it seems to be broken. I have a #1 ranking for the keywords "graphic filters" (fantasticmachines.com) in Google and GoogleRankings tells me I am not listed. Thank You, Reg Charie www.dotcom-productions.com ------- new post - new topic ------- From: Lisa Alvarado Subject: Flash Games I need flash games for my website! Any suggestions where to get games that use my artwork? I can't afford to pay a lot of money for them, but I know it's time to add them to my website for children. Lisa Alvarado http://www.mamalee.com ------- new post - new topic ------- From: Charles Oertel Subject: CSS > We're trying to build without tables, but our > CSS skills (or lack thereof) are showing. - Tom Anson, LED 1917 Dear Tom To have a left or right column colour extend all the way down the page use this CSS trick: - Put the content div and the left or right div inside a "container" div. - Float the two divs and put a '<.br clear="all" />' underneath them (to force the container div to stretch down to the bottom of the longest of the two divs. - Give the container div a background image 1px high and longer than your widest page. Make it have the desired background colours of the columns inside the container, and repeat it vertically and anchor it on the side of the menu or headline div. There is another technique that uses a thick (like 200px) right border on the container div, then positions the headline div directly on the border (but then your container must always be longer than your headlines). You should visit alistapart.com for more help, and you should be testing your site on FireFox 1.0, with the "Developers Toolbar" added BEFORE you test on IE. Once the page works properly on FireFox, apply the CSS hacks required to get IE to play along nicely - this is the approach taken by those in the know about CSS. BTW.: A group of international sites (i.e. non-US) has reported a drop of IE browser visits from 91% to 70% during the last few months - with the difference being taken up by FireFox. regards Charles Oertel FineBushPeople.net
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