| LED Digest 2244: Taguchi Testing, also SEO Education |
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Anyone using Taguchi Multivariate Testing? If so, what are your experiences and how has it boosted conversions? Also, what are the differences between Taguchi methods and A/B split testing? Plus: SEO Education - what topic areas are best suited for training SEO techniques in an academic setting? ================================================== The LED Digest Moderated Discussion List "Effective Online Advertising, Since 1997" Data > Information > Knowledge > Wisdom pair Networks: The LED's Web Host Hosting and Domain Registration from a Trusted Leader pair.com for Hosting | pairNIC.com for Domains ================================================== List Moderator: Published by: Adam Audette LED Digest adam, led-digest.com http://www.led-digest.com ............................................. September 12, 2006 Issue no. 2244 ............................................. .....IN THIS DIGEST..... ====== NEW ====================== --== Taguchi Multivariate Testing ==-- ~ Valerie Walker "...are there any other differences between Taguchi testing and A/B split testing?" ==== CONTINUING ================= --== AdSense Infraction Causing Search Penalty? ==-- ~ Reg Charie "...I have seen several instances of the same thing on other sites." --== Sub-domains and Rankings ==-- ~ Michael Martinez "Sub-domains generally have an advantage over new, previously unused domains..." --== The Search Guru ==-- ~ John Smart "The problem is not free information -- the problem is cheap misinformation." ~ Shari Thurow "SEO is still a new and evolving field." --== Small Business Sites ==-- ~ Brad Waller "Learning skills needed to succeed is a basic part of being a success." ~ Beth Ann Earle "In the end, SEO is just one piece of the puzzle." --== Getting Traffic ==-- ~ Tom Aman "My one suggestion as a start to repairing the damage..." ========== NEW =================================== From: Valerie Walker Subject: Taguchi Multivariate Testing We have been thinking of using Taguchi multivariate testing on our web site in order to improve its conversion rate. Does anyone have any experience with Taguchi testing and what sort of results one can expect from it? Also, apart from being able to test multiple things at the same time, are there any other differences between Taguchi testing and A/B split testing? Sincerely, Valerie Walker ======== CONTINUING =============================== From: Reg Charie Subject: AdSense penalty > Is Google penalizing us in their search results > due to an infraction with AdSense? - Mo Douglas, LED 2243 Mo, Perhaps this is not the answer you are looking for but I have seen several instances of the same thing on other sites. IMO only. It looks like Google has tightened up its content algorithms, slanting them more towards the content being written for humans than for rankings. I say this because all the sites that have complained that they have dropped or disappeared from Google lately, have one thing in common, they repeat their keywords many more times than is necessary for humans to read. When looking at you main page I see 30 repetitions of "Thailand" and "Stories" in your page. Since I already know that I am at a site with stories about Thailand from your logo, do I really need to see the words repeated time and time again? Regarding your question about AdSense, you are in compliance, (as far as I can see), with their rule of three ads on one page but your AdSense block under the "Introduction" seems out of place for human visitors. If I were to SEO your page, I would use "Thailand Stories" in a descriptive phrase beside your logo, remove the AdSense under the Introduction, shorten the page from 1100+ words to around 300 and remove most of the uses of "Thailand" and "Stories" in the body text. Good luck with your site. Reg Charie www.dotcom-productions.com -------- new post - new topic -------- From: Michael Martinez Subject: Sub-domains > ... I can search... and find our clients' sites with > sub-domains without too much trouble. Are they > penalized? Hard to say. But they do show up. - Brad Waller, LED 2243 Sub-domains generally have an advantage over new, previously unused domains in that they are somewhat associated by the search engines with their mother domains. This apparently advantage may or may not continue into the future. The technical literature often recognizes sub-domains as separate, distinct "hosts" from primary domains. Nonetheless, many large content Web sites that compartmentalize pages into sub-domains have documentably high success rates at achieving good placements. I have taken advantage of the sub-domain effect on several occasions, myself, and have finally begun organizing sub-domains on my own primary network. I have also tracked a number of large content sites I don't operate or advise in their extensive use of sub-domains. They all rank highly for multiple expressions in unrelated query sets. However, Google engineer Matt Cutts has recently indicated that Google may soon (if not already) take a closer look at sub-domain spam, a widespread problem (in my opinion) that has been around since the late 1990s. See http://www.mattcutts.com/blog/seo-mistakes-hosted-doorway-pages/ for his comments. Sub-domains are not easy to assess, since they may be part of large content sites, may represent individual, distinct accounts on Web hosting and ISP service sites, and may be autogenerated en masse (think of multi-state, multi-city directories and resource sites). Spam can hide anywhere in these classifications. I would not put much stock in SEO tutorials, essays, FAQs, or opinions that downplay the value of sub-domains. Neither would I look at them as magic bullets, but a large number of people in the SEO community agree that sub-domains don't appear to be impacted by the so-called Sandbox Effect. Michael Martinez http://seo.xenite.org/ -------- new post - new topic -------- From: John Smart Subject: Search guru > Would it be right to say that a good, established > site that is authoritative in its own niche does not > need SEO? Or that SEO can't help a bad site for > long? And how much can you trust a SEO who > does not rank in the top 100 for the term? - Maty Matyszak, LED 2242 No. It would be right to say that a good, established site that is authoritative in its own niche already is SEO'd! There are some very interesting posts in this special edition, but what I see is the tax example is true and good - sure, any one can do it - but why would they. All (most) of us here love what we do, so learning more is not a burden (otherwise why would we be sharing data?) I know a mathematician who loves tax time! He wants to play with the numbers as much as he can. I think he is odd, but that's okay, he thinks I am odd too. The problem is not free information - the problem is cheap misinformation. Posts within the LED and on other forums do show certain SEO persons trying to position the mirrors and generate the smoke for the wonderful magic show. Some companies / people are better at this than others, and as such, they charge a lot more. That is what Saatchi and Saatchi does for advertising. They deal with human searching, and optimize the product so that the customer finds it. They use a wealth of tools for this, and there is nothing wrong with that. If you can afford them, they will make you a lot of money. Some SEO companies do the exact same thing, and again, I see no problem with that. One could read all the advertising and marketing books, study art and communication, and do a better job than Saatchi and Saatchi, but what is your time worth? No, I see the only problem being those who try to mystify this, make it something it is not, a situation that is worsened by those who join in, take what they can, and promise to share their 'magical' knowledge when they retire. That is the lowest point in an open, shared message area. John Smart InternetDesign.com - A Human Touch in a Digital World -------- new post - same topic -------- From: Shari Thurow Subject: Search Gurus Hi all- Wow! What a great discussion about search gurus. Who knew that people would feel so passionate about this topic? Well, I sort of understand. I am quite passionate about learning how people search and why they do the things they do. Many search engine software engineers and I have the same passion. We just have a different approach. I want to comment on Barb Sybal's comment in LED #2243 regarding teaching SEO, since I have done so for a number of years. It's quite interesting, actually. What I've learned is that the approach taken for white-hat SEO is quite different from black-hat SEO, even though black-hat techniques can be taught. Reason? Technology itself is not search engine spam. It's how technology is used that can and is considered spam. But I digress. I always begin class with establishing a common vocabulary. Love my SEO colleagues, but man! Some of the terminology they come up with? Give me a break. After the common vocabulary, then comes defining SEO and its goals. And you have to show both sides of the coin, so to speak, because it seems that clients have one definition, marketers have another, and (of course) black- and white-hats have different perspectives on what SEO goals are. My approach has always been on UCD (user-centered design), though I didn't know that UCD existed back in 1995. Nonetheless, I do have a library / info science background (education and work experience). So it sort of naturally fit. The Web and SEO certainly made using keywords more noticeable in the public eye, but believe me when I say this: librarians have been onto this for years. Labeling and titling has been a part of usability for years. I had to eat a big slice of humble pie when I returned to grad school. I quickly recovered and embraced the combination of my SEO experience and that of my colleagues and professors. I'm a million times better at SEO than I have ever been, and I certainly appreciate metadata more than I could have ever imagined. As for teaching SEO, I believe it firmly belongs in a library / info science department or a human factors department. There is a technology aspect to SEO, and I don't consider anyone to be a "search guru" without it. So some of the names that Mike Valentine dropped [issue 2243]? Not search gurus in my book. Copycats, yes. Search gurus, uh-uh. I don't believe every single person needs to go to grad school in library / info science to be a search guru. SEO is still a new and evolving field. There are people who are just "naturals" at it and don't require a formal education. However, I don't hire anyone who has "certification" from another SEO training program because it takes me far longer to train employees to unlearn the garbage (mostly spam techniques) than to start from scratch. I certainly see the need for search optimization (as I prefer to call it) as a class or series of classes in colleges and universities. It might take awhile to get to that point, but that's the direction I'm moving. Shari Thurow Grantastic Designs, Inc. http://www.grantasticdesigns.com/ -------- new post - new topic -------- From: Brad Waller Subject: Small Biz Sites Re: Small Business Sites Funny that two posters made comments about small business owners *somehow* doing our own four-color separations, accounting, legal work, computer repair, plumbing, and electrical work [see issue 2241]. Maybe not all, but I can see many being able to handle much of that just fine. Maybe the youth of today have been brought up differently, but I was brought up to do a lot of different things. Learning skills needed to succeed is a basic part of being a success. In life and business. What can I do competently? Well, with Photoshop I can do four-color separations in seconds. With Quickbooks I have been doing accounting (but not taxes) for years. With Nolo press and working with lawyers I have been doing basic legal work (landlord tenant, basic agreements, letters of intent) myself (sometimes I write the agreement and have the lawyer proof). I have been building computers since before there was a Web, and often upgrade and maintain computers at the office, home, and for friends. When I was a teenager I helped my Dad completely re-plumb our house and have done all plumbing repair work at my own house. Electrical? That is simple stuff. In fact, I installed two ceiling fans this year in our house. Oh yeah, I also do all the work on our cars and am hopefully a few weeks from finishing the installation of an engine into one of them. I bet John Audette who was a great success running Web businesses is a far better mechanic than I am - at least with Porsches. I don't think of myself as a renaissance man, just someone who can learn and apply skills. I'm also not saying that I don't hire a pro when I get to something I don't know or is too big of a job, or that everyone can and should do everything themselves. But often the small business owner (or homeowner) truly does have more time than money and it can make sense to do it yourself. Sometimes you just can't get the car into the shop before you actually need to drive it and you just have to do the work yourself. I am fully confident in my skills doing these things I mention, but with more money than time I have hired pros to do the work at times. Sometimes it is out of basic necessity, and other times it makes sense to learn and do it yourself. When you are already a success and have the luxury of paying a pro, it is easy to do so. Brad Waller http://adjungle.com - manage and sell your own site advertising waller, adjungle.com -------- new post - same topic -------- From: Beth Ann Earle Subject: Small biz sites > ... anyone can create a website... but creating a highly > effective commercial website is a whole different story. - Mark Whitman, LED 2241 > I have to agree... sure a small business owner can try > and learn web design, web development, SEO and other > web marketing strategies, but the field has become so > technical and so diverse that it is nearly impossible to > do well at all things. - Renee Kennedy, LED 2243 I have to agree with Mark and Renee here. In the end, SEO is just one piece of the puzzle. While good SEO will get visitors to your site, as soon as they get there, you need to hit them with a look and feel and message that say "Yes, we're a legitimate business, and, yes, we can meet your needs." And that's not SEO; it's really just plain, good old marketing (which other LED'ers have very wisely pointed out in past editions). Barb Syball also had a good point in this LED that SEO "courses would require copywriting / journalism, marketing, library sciences and computer sciences" -- you need all of these, plus a good feel for your target audience, to create the highly effective commercial website that Mark Whitman referred to in LED 2241. I'll click on a website link if it's on the first page of Google or Yahoo (and its description makes sense for what I'm looking for). But, if I don't like the looks of the site once I get there, I won't do business with the site owner -- just like I won't buy anything from the doll store down the street, because it was dirty and cluttered the times I visited. If a business isn't good with basic things (like marketing and appearance), I tend to question how good they are at the bigger things. What sort of website is the opposite of the cluttered doll store for me? A site with consistent navigation from page to page ... easy-to-find basic contact info (preferably the company name, address and phone number on each page, along with an easy link to a contact form) ... consistent fonts (both in face, size and color) following a logical hierarchy (bigger at the top, smaller at the bottom) ... the use of acceptable grammar, punctuation (no exclamation marks - !) and capitalization (what's acceptable? Whatever makes sense for the owner's country and background -- as long as it's consistent with some commonly recognized system, so, yeah, maybe in certain circumstances, a few judicious exclamation marks would be OK) ... an appropriate color scheme ... images and animation that make sense with the site's purpose and function ... a clearly defined statement of the site's focus and what the owner can do for me ... Which brings up my last point (promise!) ... maybe a successful web site doesn't need to meet the criteria I personally (and professionally) use to decide who I want to do business with. Obviously, there are a ton of web sites created by site owners, various people's friends and relatives and others passing themselves off as professionals, experts or gurus that don't meet my criteria, .. and ... maybe that's OK. Maybe some of them are even created by true experts who know their target audience and know that the site meets the target audience's expectations or matches their comfort level or fits in perfectly with that business sector's practices. There are several sites that their owners or creators have proclaimed "successful websites" that I've looked at and thought "Oh, brother." But, on second look, I've realized that, well, yeah, maybe they *are* successful. After all, most of these sites don't offer anything I'm interested in, and they're business sectors and target audiences that I'm not familiar with, so maybe I'm not a good judge of what's successful in these examples. If nothing else, participating in the LED has taught me that there's a vast array of site owners on the Internet (hence the term World Wide web) with an equally vast (if not vaster ?) array of goals, audiences, products and services. The important thing, I think, is for each of us to figure out what's best for our businesses and our customers and then trying our very best to do it (whether that means doing it ourselves or having somebody else do it), with the realization that what works in one instance isn't necessarily the best plan in another instance. And it's awfully good to have knowledgeable, passionate LED'ers to bounce ideas off of, because... sometimes... you just never know what might work. Peace, Beth Ann Earle www.pilotfishseo.com -------- new post - new topic -------- From: Tom Aman Subject: Getting traffic > ... I added an "s" the same color as the > background. Yes, I know, hidden text = bad > etc. but I thought 1 letter wouldn't matter! - Aline Huntly, LED 2241 My one suggestion as a start to repairing the damage would be to get really creative with the words on the page and do some rephrasing. For example, you could say something like "We have considerable experience with Maui vacation rentals as we owned and operated Hooipa Hale vacation rentals for 5+ years so understand what is important to our guests..." Says the same thing as the existing paragraph but legally works in the key word phrase. I expect there may be other spots on the page / site where a bit of creative wording would work in the phrase or a sentence or two might be added within the page that talks about Maui vacation rentals in a general way. Tom Aman Aman Software http://www.cyberspyder.com ------------------------------------------------------- The LED Digest is sponsored by pair Networks: pair.com for Hosting | pairNIC.com for Domains © Copyright 1995-2006 Orange Wheel, LLC. All Rights Reserved. ----------------------------------------------------------------- "We must be willing to get rid of the life we've planned, so as to have the life that is waiting for us." - Joseph Campbell |
